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  #16  
Old 10-26-2010, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tuckahoeskin View Post
Moderate conservatives?
Correct. People more right than middle, but definitely right leaning as compared to a moderate liberal but left of the staunchly conservative.
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #17  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
Political ideology aside, it is hard to disagree with the premise of the rally: That being our country would be in dramatically better shape if the discourse was less extreme.
I might take issue with that premise.
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:03 PM
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I might take issue with that premise.
Well, then you're no different than Hitler! lol
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:33 PM
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All 3 of you sound like the SS.
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Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #20  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:37 PM
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All 3 of you sound like the SS.
Thats the kind of rhetoric that I'm come to expect from bloodthirsty gay raping Stalinists like you.
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  #21  
Old 10-26-2010, 07:53 PM
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Well, then you're no different than Hitler! lol
Stop trying to silence me with your Gestapo tactics.
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  #22  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:09 PM
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I might take issue with that premise.
The floor is yours . . .
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  #23  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:28 PM
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The floor is yours . . .
There's a feeling common to many left-of-center folks that the great problem with politics is a lack of civility and rationality. In particular, there's a longing for a JFK-style approach to policy, in which enlightened technocrats and their supporters in civil society can solve the serious problems we face. In that worldview, rational political discussion among elected officials, and their well-informed constituents, serves as a complement to such efforts. That's a view I used to share, and which I increasingly believe is naive and frankly utopian, in addition to being rather elitist.

In reality, politics require a lot of struggle, some of it in the upper reaches of government and academia, and some of it in the gutter. Global warming, continued racial inequality, poverty, the excesses of finance capitalism--solving such problems is impossible without overcoming the determined resistance from those who benefit from ignoring or perpetuating them. There is a very vocal and powerful right-wing that will do whatever it takes to prevent such problems from being solved.

In my mind, the calls for political civility by liberals reflect the same foolishness that led Obama to make overtures to the Republicans, who were plainly never interested in compromise (except insofar as "compromise" meant bowing completing to their agenda). It also leads to half-measures like the health-care bill, which has invigorated the Republican opposition (which is generally quite content to let people get sick as long as the state doesn't have to pay for it), while doing little to inspire excitement among their own base (did they really expect liberals to fall in love with RomneyCare?).
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  #24  
Old 10-26-2010, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by justinskins View Post
There's a feeling common to many left-of-center folks that the great problem with politics is a lack of civility and rationality. In particular, there's a longing for a JFK-style approach to policy, in which enlightened technocrats and their supporters in civil society can solve the serious problems we face. In that worldview, rational political discussion among elected officials, and their well-informed constituents, serves as a complement to such efforts. That's a view I used to share, and which I increasingly believe is naive and frankly utopian, in addition to being rather elitist.

In reality, politics require a lot of struggle, some of it in the upper reaches of government and academia, and some of it in the gutter. Global warming, continued racial inequality, poverty, the excesses of finance capitalism--solving such problems is impossible without overcoming the determined resistance from those who benefit from ignoring or perpetuating them. There is a very vocal and powerful right-wing that will do whatever it takes to prevent such problems from being solved.

In my mind, the calls for political civility by liberals reflect the same foolishness that led Obama to make overtures to the Republicans, who were plainly never interested in compromise (except insofar as "compromise" meant bowing completing to their agenda). It also leads to half-measures like the health-care bill, which has invigorated the Republican opposition (which is generally quite content to let people get sick as long as the state doesn't have to pay for it), while doing little to inspire excitement among their own base (did they really expect liberals to fall in love with RomneyCare?).
None of this sounds like you think having a more measured, pragmatic conversation is a bad thing. Just that you don't see it happening.

I guess I probably agree that the goals of this rally aren't realistic. The ratings Fox News gets are evidence lots and lots (and lots) of people don't care about honest dialog.

I'm just happy a few guys with big microphones are giving it a shot.
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  #25  
Old 10-26-2010, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BurgundyNGold View Post
I was thinking about attending when they were billing it as a rally for moderates. This country needs that so desperately. I'm not really interested in attending a rally for either side side if it promotes the same old partisan bickering.
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Precisely. And precisely why moderate conservatives, who are also sick of the tone of the discourse in this country will likely attend.
There won't be moderate anythings there. Its a big jolly, liberal laugh fest that will do nothing but make cracks at people they disagree with. You can choose to buy the whole meme that its not political but it most certainly is. It also is making no effort to calm the discourse. I can be really funny while I rip someone to shreds. Its even easier when the audience is at the edge of their seats just waiting for me to do it.
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:04 PM
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There won't be moderate anythings there. Its a big jolly, liberal laugh fest that will do nothing but make cracks at people they disagree with.

It also is making no effort to calm the discourse. I can be really funny while I rip someone to shreds.
I'll be stunned if any of these predictions turn out to be true. These guys are too smart to sell a rally based on a desire for rationale, non-partisan dialog and then do just the opposite with national TV cameras rolling.

You can say a lot of things about Stewart and Colbert, but neither of them are dumb men.
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
I'll be stunned if any of these predictions turn out to be true. These guys are too smart to sell a rally based on a desire for rationale, non-partisan dialog and then do just the opposite with national TV cameras rolling.

You can say a lot of things about Stewart and Colbert, but neither of them are dumb men.
I won't hold my breath for the jokes on Obama. They know their audience and will save their dem shots for folks like Reid and Pelosi.
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:11 PM
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None of this sounds like you think having a more measured, pragmatic conversation is a bad thing. Just that you don't see it happening.
It's a very pretty ideal, one that I've found very attractive in the past. But the ideal can be bad if it keeps liberals from fighting as hard (and sometimes as dirty) as they need to.
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2010, 11:14 PM
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I won't hold my breath for the jokes on Obama. They know their audience and will save their dem shots for folks like Reid and Pelosi.
If the pre-rally build-up is any indication, the majority of the jokes will be about how the the country actually isn't a collection of terrorist Muslims, narrow-minded rednecks and America-hating Socialists. The idea that Democrat and Republican voters are unable to talk about problems without biting each other's head's off will be the great evil.

Media (rather than politicians) will get the brunt of the abuse and I'm guessing they'll make point not to spend the entire time talking about Beck and Limbaugh. If it turns into a Fox News bashfest they won't be able to assume the intellectual higher ground they're going for.
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  #30  
Old 10-27-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RedskinsDave View Post
There won't be moderate anythings there. Its a big jolly, liberal laugh fest that will do nothing but make cracks at people they disagree with. You can choose to buy the whole meme that its not political but it most certainly is. It also is making no effort to calm the discourse. I can be really funny while I rip someone to shreds. Its even easier when the audience is at the edge of their seats just waiting for me to do it.
I liked the original premise of the rally. It was initially meant to be a parody of the heavy handed, incendiary rhetoric of Beck on the mall. Calling those kind of people out for their scorched earth political policies is a good idea. What it has morphed into since I have no interest in.

It's ironic, actually. The tea baggers have hijaaked the conservative movement, which led to Beck's rally. Stewart/Colbert's parodic response rally meant to call out Beck's hipocrisy and to promote the middle promptly gets hijaaked by the Ariana Huffingtons of the world for the liberal cause.

BTW, anyone who thinks that Glenn Beck is the only opportunistic douche who leverages political idealism for his own personal gain should look left at Arian Huffingotn. But do so quickly before she moves again.
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The one disappointment of the off-season housecleaning that brought Allen and Shanahan here is that they didn't part ways with Larry Michael as well. He is a prominent and unavoidable symbol of the horrible way Snyder and Cerrator ran this team in the past. Moving on to a new era of Redskins football, on and off the field, should have meant severing ties with him as well.
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