K-Shanny running the Qb circus?

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that the environment at Redskins Park is so toxic, very, very few coaches are hungry and tough enough to manage a level of success and I think Gruden is one of those. Plus, there is always the chance that Chucky would rip off Snyder's head, if Snyder ever tried to bully him.

Shanny might not be as loud, but he's a bigger hardass than Chucky imo. Any head coach needs a respected FO hand to help keep Snyder focused on suing the local press and not suggesting ideas for draft picks.

[redskin_rich]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Shanny might not be as loud, but he's a bigger hardass than Chucky imo. Any head coach needs a respected FO hand to help keep Snyder focused on suing the local press and not suggesting ideas for draft picks.

And this takes us back to the original topic of this thread... Shanny doesn't appear to be a hard ass to his boy, Little Shanny get's his way.

[Skins7ny]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that the environment at Redskins Park is so toxic, very, very few coaches are hungry and tough enough to manage a level of success and I think Gruden is one of those. Plus, there is always the chance that Chucky would rip off Snyder's head, if Snyder ever tried to bully him.

Chucky (and Bruce) certainly has a terrific history of working with terrible owners and still managing to go to Super Bowls. We could do a lot worse, and have. It would not surprise me if he is our head coach someday (it would actually somewhat surprise me if he isn't, before Danny's tenure as owner is over). For some reason, I have never liked Chucky as a head coach, although it is hard to argue with two Super Bowls.

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

I agree but again, everything he had to work with was flawed. If he has one that stands above the others, he would stick with him.

But he is the one that chose all of those QBs. The only one he didn't choose is the one that won him a Super Bowl, Brad Johnson (thanks again, Danny you complete idiot).

Originally Posted by silverspring

Jesus you guys are old. I just hope you are still around when the lockout is over

Thanks, me too!
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

[shally]

Originally Posted by Skins7ny

Chucky (and Bruce) certainly has a terrific history of working with terrible owners and still managing to go to Super Bowls. We could do a lot worse, and have. It would not surprise me if he is our head coach someday (it would actually somewhat surprise me if he isn't, before Danny's tenure as owner is over). For some reason, I have never liked Chucky as a head coach, although it is hard to argue with two Super Bowls.

But he is the one that chose all of those QBs. The only one he didn't choose is the one that won him a Super Bowl, Brad Johnson (thanks again, Danny you complete idiot).


Thanks, me too!
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

..from the Byrds.... one of my favorite songs of that era..

[shally]

Originally Posted by silverspring

Jesus you guys are old. I just hope you are still around when the lockout is over

me, too.. i havent got time for this kind of foolishness...every season becomes more precious to me

[shally]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

and that is different from Shanny how?

Chuckie once had 5 qb's on the roster in Tampa.. even Shanahan cant come close to that..lol

[redskin_rich]

Originally Posted by Skins7ny

But he is the one that chose all of those QBs. The only one he didn't choose is the one that won him a Super Bowl, Brad Johnson (thanks again, Danny you complete idiot).


Thanks, me too!
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

It's not like quality starting QB's are readily available. Chucky got lucky with two, Gannon and Johnson --hmmm, funny how both of their last stops before playing in Super Bowls were in DC and I know we can't blame Snyder for Gannon but still, it's bothersome-- then, perhaps, he thought he could find another journeyman and achieve the same. Who knows, the situation in Tampa with the large stable of meh, probably was an anomaly and hopefully a learning experience.


"The older I get, the younger I used to be."

[shally]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

It's not like quality starting QB's are readily available. Chucky got lucky with two, Gannon and Johnson --hmmm, funny how both of their last stops before playing in Super Bowls were in DC and I know we can't blame Snyder for Gannon but still, it's bothersome-- then, perhaps, he thought he could find another journeyman and achieve the same. Who knows, the situation in Tampa with the large stable of meh, probably was an anomaly and hopefully a learning experience.


"The older I get, the younger I used to be."

not just those two:

trent green

stan humphries

[redskin_rich]

Originally Posted by shally

not just those two:

trent green

stan humphries

You don't have to remind me, I was just speaking in the context of Gruden.

On those two-

Green was out of anybody's control, if anything, blame Casserly for not re-signing him during the season.

Humphries was a late going away gift to Beatherd. Gibbs didn't like Stan's laziness.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

And this takes us back to the original topic of this thread... Shanny doesn't appear to be a hard ass to his boy, Little Shanny get's his way.

Its Gibbs/Gregg Williams all over again potentially. If Lil' Shanny is willing to be petulant over a player his father traded a 2nd for, then Papa Shanny essentially has to run every offensive personnel move by him for his approval. Not good.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Its Gibbs/Gregg Williams all over again potentially. If Lil' Shanny is willing to be petulant over a player his father traded a 2nd for, then Papa Shanny essentially has to run every offensive personnel move by him for his approval. Not good.

It's even more than that....Papa Shanny is willing to fall on the sword to protect his son. I guess he feels his reputation and legacy are secure. Falling on the sword is the only thing that explains the nonsensical answers from Shanny about the QB situation last year.

[CNYSkinFan]

I actually dont blame little shanny bmore then big shanny though. I thinkk it is just as possible big shanny is hell bent on getting a ring soon to cement his place in Canton and his arrogance led him to blame McNabb over his son thus Mcnabb had to go. He did the same thing to qbs in Denver, thought not as drastic.

My bet is Shanny turns on his own after this year too. The only ego bigger then Kyles is Mikes and if things dont work this year he will find a soft landing spot of rhis son somewhere in the NCAA at the HC rank and move on.

[shally]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

I actually dont blame little shanny bmore then big shanny though. I thinkk it is just as possible big shanny is hell bent on getting a ring soon to cement his place in Canton and his arrogance led him to blame McNabb over his son thus Mcnabb had to go. He did the same thing to qbs in Denver, thought not as drastic.

My bet is Shanny turns on his own after this year too. The only ego bigger then Kyles is Mikes and if things dont work this year he will find a soft landing spot of rhis son somewhere in the NCAA at the HC rank and move on.

Nope..

this year the team will show it has turned the corner on both offense and defense, as more young players will have been intergrated into the system.

there is still a crater at QB, but with a couple of free agents for the o line and some development of former practice squadders we will see real progress. if nothing else, overall team speed and athleticism should be markedly improved.

the lockout has hurt this team, so it will be the second half before it is noticable..

[Skins7ny]

Originally Posted by shally

..from the Byrds.... one of my favorite songs of that era..

Mine too. I loved the song as a kid, but it took me a while to locate it because of title ("My Back Pages") does not match the lyrics. One of several Dylan covers that became big hits for people who could actually carry a tune.

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

It's not like quality starting QB's are readily available. Chucky got lucky with two, Gannon and Johnson --hmmm, funny how both of their last stops before playing in Super Bowls were in DC and I know we can't blame Snyder for Gannon but still, it's bothersome-- then, perhaps, he thought he could find another journeyman and achieve the same. Who knows, the situation in Tampa with the large stable of meh, probably was an anomaly and hopefully a learning experience.
"The older I get, the younger I used to be."

Gruden seems to think that he can coach up any QB to greatness, and therefore sees greatness in players who don't have it in them. He turned Gannon into an All-Star by tailoring the offense to his strengths and by giving him the ball. However, Gannon had turned his career around in Kansas City after he left here and before he signed with the Raiders, establishing himself as a starting-caliber NFL QB. Casserly probably deserves some credit for seeing starting potential in Gannon at a time (1993) when he wasn't getting much play from other teams. Some teams still wanted to convert him to a WR, which he refused to do when NE drafted him out of Delaware.

Originally Posted by redskin_rich

You don't have to remind me, I was just speaking in the context of Gruden.

On those two-

Green was out of anybody's control, if anything, blame Casserly for not re-signing him during the season.

Humphries was a late going away gift to Beatherd. Gibbs didn't like Stan's laziness.

Casserly wanted badly to re-sign Green, but couldn't get approval from the Cooke Estate trustees that were then running the team. I beleive that he and Green's agent had agreed to a 4 year-$16M contract for him to stay. When Casserly could not get approval, Green proceeded to free agency and signed essentially the same deal with the Rams, which is his hometown team. He was have an amazing pre-season for the Rams when that turd Rodney Harrison ran into his knee, opening the door for Kurt Warner.

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Its Gibbs/Gregg Williams all over again potentially. If Lil' Shanny is willing to be petulant over a player his father traded a 2nd for, then Papa Shanny essentially has to run every offensive personnel move by him for his approval. Not good.

On what other team would you advocate the head coach making personnel moves on offense without rjnning them by his offensive coordinator for his input? You are being completely ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Keino

....At the end of the day though, I think Skins7ny makes possibly best point in the most concise way, a point those of us opposed to how this situation was handled made ad nauseum at the time of the benching: The guy was on pace to pass for 4,000 yards. It sure is easier to trade a guy everyone thinks you value who just passed for 4,000 yards then it is a guy who everyone knows you hate.

I have been accused of lots of things over the years, but never this!

[CNYSkinFan]

running something by a coordinator is one thing, givign a coordinator carte blatche is another. Kyle strikes a very similar chord to Gregg Williams in that he believes his system beats out talent and he should not adjust his system to the talent he has. Kyle never made the adjustments McNabb wanted and then went to his dad to have him pulled. Kyle seems to want veto power over who is his qb, and his dad seems to be giving it to him.