2012 Presidential race

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

Yeah, but that seems more like trying to be a typical politician - i.e. make everybody happy. And while I agree it doesn't work, it's a pretty big leap from there to anti-semitic.

Every president since Truman refuses to recognize this(even Reagan, even Dubya). If Romney's elected, he'll do the same. It's not antisemitism, its a specific policy and international law.

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Every president since Truman refuses to recognize this(even Reagan, even Dubya). If Romney's elected, he'll do the same. It's not antisemitism, its a specific policy and international law.

Yeah I'm at a loss for why someone would think Obama is anti-Jew "at his core." The guy has plenty of shortcomings, but from this gentile's perspective that isn't one of them.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

Yeah I'm at a loss for why someone would think Obama is anti-Jew "at his core." The guy has plenty of shortcomings, but from this gentile's perspective that isn't one of them.

Because he is a Kenyan born Muslim Socialist. Duh.

[shally]

Originally Posted by Keino

Because he is a Kenyan born Muslim Socialist. Duh.

i dont care where he was born, or what religion he was raised or what his parent philosophy was.

i do care how he shapes his policy towards Israel and the Arab countries in the Middle East, including Iran.. if it walks like a duck.....

[shally]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Every president since Truman refuses to recognize this(even Reagan, even Dubya). If Romney's elected, he'll do the same. It's not antisemitism, its a specific policy and international law.

yes, it is institutional anti Semitism.. and i dont give a crap about what other Presidents have done.. it's still anti-semitism

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by shally

i do care how he shapes his policy towards Israel and the Arab countries in the Middle East, including Iran.. if it walks like a duck.....

When does the duck go from being a typical politician (avoiding a major decision on a divisive issue, a la Clinton and Don't Ask Don't Tell) to being anti-semitic?

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by shally

i do care how he shapes his policy towards Israel and the Arab countries in the Middle East, including Iran.. if it walks like a duck.....

So I guess that 63% of Israeli citizens are antisemitic also?

And the heads of Shin Bet(Israeli Military intel), Mossad and the IDF chief of staff?

If Israel could take out the Iranian nuke capabilities with a strike, then whether or not to strike is a fair question. Israel has a right to defend itself(nevermind that Iran is more likely to use their nukes against the Saudis first). Just about every military expert says that even if Israel used Nukes(which they won't do) against the Iranian nuke sites, they can't destroy the entire program.

Bibi's waiting on/delaying striking Iran not because Obama is supposedly twisting his arm. He's not striking Iran because he has an election coming and doing it without the US' support is very unpopular among his voters(even with our support its a 50/50 issue in Israel). If he could do it without massive retaliation and getting the entire program, he'd do it no matter how popular or not. But thats not in the realm of possible. And even if Romney/Ryan is elected in November, they'll do everything that they can to stop Bibi from striking Iran also.

Originally Posted by shally

yes, it is institutional anti Semitism.. and i dont give a crap about what other Presidents have done.. it's still anti-semitism

So Dubya was an anti-semite since he did the same things? He opposed Israel expanding the settlements(even publicly condemning them many times) and wouldn't move the embassy to Jerusalem. Even if Jackie Mason was President, he'd still keep in the embassy in Tel Aviv.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by shally

i dont care where he was born, or what religion he was raised or what his parent philosophy was.

i do care how he shapes his policy towards Israel and the Arab countries in the Middle East, including Iran.. if it walks like a duck.....

I only care about Israel to the extent it affects America. That's it.

I am an American citizen, not an Israeli citizen and I don't give a damn what religion people want to practice.

Not supporting every radical thing Israel wants to do is not anti-smeitism by the way.

[shally]

Originally Posted by Keino

I only care about Israel to the extent it affects America. That's it.

I am an American citizen, not an Israeli citizen and I don't give a damn what religion people want to practice.

Not supporting every radical thing Israel wants to do is not anti-smeitism by the way.

Israel wanting to have the capitol in Jerusalem is radical ??

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by shally

Israel wanting to have the capitol in Jerusalem is radical ??

Its not. But its been US policy to recognize East Jerusalem as part of Palestine since thats what the UN set up when they set up the state of Israel. Stubborn? Yes. Kabuki theater as politics? Absolutely. Anti-semitic? No way.

[shally]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Its not. But its been US policy to recognize East Jerusalem as part of Palestine since thats what the UN set up when they set up the state of Israel. Stubborn? Yes. Kabuki theater as politics? Absolutely. Anti-semitic? No way.

it was also US policy for most of WW2 to have blinders on as millions were vaporized by the Nazis.. The State Department has a long and "distinguished" history of wishing all Jewish problems would go away..Screw them !

it is not just Jews, by the way.. We have not done right by Armenians and Kurds over history, for the most part

Kabuki theater, indeed...

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by shally

it was also US policy for most of WW2 to have blinders on as millions were vaporized by the Nazis.. The State Department has a long and "distinguished" history of wishing all Jewish problems would go away..Screw them !

it is not just Jews, by the way.. We have not done right by Armenians and Kurds over history, for the most part

Kabuki theater, indeed...

A has nothing to do with B here. Even Presidents who were extremely supportive of Israel across the board refused to make this change(and its not the state department who's been behind this, they bend over backward to avoid any conflicts by having own diplomats travel to Jerusalem to conduct official business instead of demanding Israeli officials come to Tel Aviv, which is occasionally done by everyone else). A better comparison would be the non-recognition of Cuba for purely political theater reasons.

Again: policy not antisemitism.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by shally

Israel wanting to have the capitol in Jerusalem is radical ??

Not supporting it is anti-semitic? There are valid reasons to not support such a move given that the city represents a holy city for three major religions and part of it is supposed to belong to palestine.

No, what I was thinking of as radical is unsolicited airstrikes in Iran and expansion of Israeli settlements into areas that are supposed to be carved out for an independed Palestinian state.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by shally

it was also US policy for most of WW2 to have blinders on as millions were vaporized by the Nazis.. The State Department has a long and "distinguished" history of wishing all Jewish problems would go away..Screw them !

it is not just Jews, by the way.. We have not done right by Armenians and Kurds over history, for the most part

Kabuki theater, indeed...

That's not fair. It took a direct attack on a US military base to get this country involved in WWII as our foreign policy at the time was isolationism. That you mention other groups is further evidence that it's not anti-semitism at all.

I won't discount the possibility that there are those with anti-semitic views in key positions, however.

[swheeler]

Originally Posted by shally

Israel wanting to have the capitol in Jerusalem is radical ??

It's not antisemitic for the U.S. to not put its embassy in Jerusalem, just like it wouldn't be somehow inherently racist against Arabs if the U.S. changed its position and moved the embassy. Either way it's a policy decision based on U.S. national interest in avoiding pissing off either side any more than necessary.

It's perfectly reasonable if you think the U.S. should officially recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. It's entirely unreasonable to say that anyone who disagrees with you is antisemitic, and in my opinion trivializes the word itself.

And for anyone to say they wouldn't vote for Obama because of this policy is absurd, unless they've also refused to vote for every past U.S. president since Israel was founded.