Location: new orleans, now the palm springs of washington
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When will ref's start calling "Holding" ?
Maybe it was just because i was looking for it, but it seemed obvious that Orakpo was being held constantly against the Giants.
There was one play early in the game where Manning completed a pass for a first down where it was so egregious that fans were booing in expectation that it would be called, and wasnt !! it was a play where the event occurred in isolation for all to see, and still, it wasnt called.
I dont know what Shanahan or Orakpo can do. He clearly needs to learn to use his hands more in a rip move and Shanahan needs to massage the Refs before the game to look for it.. but so far, no deal !!
Maybe it was just because i was looking for it, but it seemed obvious that Orakpo was being held constantly against the Giants.
There was one play early in the game where Manning completed a pass for a first down where it was so egregious that fans were booing in expectation that it would be called, and wasnt !! it was a play where the event occurred in isolation for all to see, and still, it wasnt called.
I dont know what Shanahan or Orakpo can do. He clearly needs to learn to use his hands more in a rip move and Shanahan needs to massage the Refs before the game to look for it.. but so far, no deal !!
Any ideas ??
Make a compilation video and send it to the league. Work the refs throughout the week, not just during the games.
I saw the play you're talking about. It was a big gain to the TE, Ballard. Manning was rolling to Orakpo's side, and wouldn't have had a chance had the LT not had Orakpo in a choke hold.
Still, Orakpo needs to figure out how to work through those, or he'll see it all year, again.
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Maybe it was just because i was looking for it, but it seemed obvious that Orakpo was being held constantly against the Giants.
There was one play early in the game where Manning completed a pass for a first down where it was so egregious that fans were booing in expectation that it would be called, and wasnt !! it was a play where the event occurred in isolation for all to see, and still, it wasnt called.
I dont know what Shanahan or Orakpo can do. He clearly needs to learn to use his hands more in a rip move and Shanahan needs to massage the Refs before the game to look for it.. but so far, no deal !!
If a there was stat for the number of holds against a player, Rak would lead the league, I swear. Maybe I'll see if Mike Pereira has a Twitter and tweet him to see what can be done. I got a message from Skip Bayless after I told him he was on drugs for saying Dallass will win the division, so anything is possible, lol....
Is that holding? I don't think the still shot gives a definitive answer. He is not grabbing the jersey and his hand is on the inside of Orakpo's shoulder pads, which is legal. The real question in my mind is why isn't Orakpo using rips and swims to get that hand off of him? A rip with the Right Arm would dis-engage that blocker.
This is only holding if the Linemen grabs a fistful of jersey and/or drags Orakpo down. Would need to see the entire play to make that determination. O linemen are allowed to enagage pas rushers with their hands and are under no obligation to free them if they are making their way toward the QB.
Now I saw instances of holding during the game, I just question whether or not the picture above is the smoking gun people think it is.
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I'm with Keino on this photo. At real speed this did look like holding, but, the still shot is just too iffy to call. If anything Rak looks like he has the linemans arm pinned to make it appear like its holding. Now, there were several times where this dude had Rak around the throat, up under his chinstrap that never got called either.If Rak wants to become a top pass rusher, he NEEDS to learn techniques to get around this. Martial arts would be an incredible help in learning how to keep blockers hands off of him, these are some the first things taught in self-defense and martial arts classes.He also needs to start learning more techniques. And in this picture, seems a quick spin to his left would've completely freed him up.
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Is that holding? I don't think the still shot gives a definitive answer. He is not grabbing the jersey and his hand is on the inside of Orakpo's shoulder pads, which is legal. The real question in my mind is why isn't Orakpo using rips and swims to get that hand off of him? A rip with the Right Arm would dis-engage that blocker.
This is only holding if the Linemen grabs a fistful of jersey and/or drags Orakpo down. Would need to see the entire play to make that determination. O linemen are allowed to enagage pas rushers with their hands and are under no obligation to free them if they are making their way toward the QB.
Now I saw instances of holding during the game, I just question whether or not the picture above is the smoking gun people think it is.
I recall the play referenced earlier and I'm guessing this is a shot from that play, but as you said it's hard to say from this singular moment.
The rulebook states:
"A runner may ward off opponents with his hands and arms but no other player on offense may use hands or arms to obstruct an opponent by grasping with hands, pushing, or encircling any part of his body during a block. Hands (open or closed) can be thrust forward to initially contact an opponent on or outside the opponent’s frame, but the blocker immediately must work to bring his hands on or inside the frame.
Note: Pass blocking: Hand(s) thrust forward that slip outside the body of the defender will be legal if blocker immediately worked to bring them back inside. Hand(s) or arm(s) that encircle a defender—i.e., hook an opponent—are to be considered illegal and officials are to call a foul for holding.
Blocker cannot use his hands or arms to push from behind, hang onto, or encircle an opponent in a manner that restricts his movement as the play develops."
It's pretty close to encircling but not definitive.
Youtube wins again, here's the play-
As for Rak's technique, he has shown improvement. On that play he gets inside and tries to rip him but the OT is leaning down on the back of his shoulder and as Rak tries to rip up the OT pins his arm as he's driving him inside (as Eli slide outside) and that was where he got all twisted and it should've been called. It's just physically not possible for anyone to overcome the force of an NFL tackle with one arm in that positon.
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Last edited by Keino : 09-13-2011 at 11:13 AM.
Reason: Embed the youtube link.
Is that holding? I don't think the still shot gives a definitive answer. He is not grabbing the jersey and his hand is on the inside of Orakpo's shoulder pads, which is legal. The real question in my mind is why isn't Orakpo using rips and swims to get that hand off of him? A rip with the Right Arm would dis-engage that blocker.
This is only holding if the Linemen grabs a fistful of jersey and/or drags Orakpo down. Would need to see the entire play to make that determination. O linemen are allowed to enagage pas rushers with their hands and are under no obligation to free them if they are making their way toward the QB.
Now I saw instances of holding during the game, I just question whether or not the picture above is the smoking gun people think it is.
I do recall one play where I was convinced Orakpo got held while rushing inside. (Of course there was no replay) I just grabbed this pic off of Steinberg's site because it looked germane to the conversation.
Location: new orleans, now the palm springs of washington
Posts: 57,560
i think that pic was a split second before the LT pulled Rak downward- which should have been a hold.. if you watch it in real time, there is no question in my mind, that the LT was doing something illegal
that said, he simply needs to use his hands better or this will go on throughout his career
On that play he gets inside and tries to rip him but the OT is leaning down on the back of his shoulder and as Rak tries to rip up the OT pins his arm as he's driving him inside (as Eli slide outside) and that was where he got all twisted and it should've been called. It's just physically not possible for anyone to overcome the force of an NFL tackle with one arm in that positon.
This is exactly what I was thinking of. And I think the picture I linked from the Sports Bog comes from this particularl play.
When will ref's start calling "Holding" ?
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