Westbrook

[silverspring]

Originally Posted by Keino

If he can't cover he shouldn't be on the team. Pointing out that he sucks at his primary function is not blaming him for coaching/personnel decisions. Most of us who don't like his play don't hate teh guy personally, just hate watching him give up plays.

By that logic Landry should be off the team as well.

Originally Posted by Keino

You are absolutely correct. The team had ample opportunity to shore up the the back-up safeties and chose to re-sign the guy who knows all the assignments, but can't get there to complete them. They knew Landry was coming off of both wrist and Achilles injuries. They also knew that there was a huge drop-off once the starters go down (Or maybe they don't know this, which is a major problem). Starting Doughty under any circumstances outside of 3 safeties being hurt is foolishness. The guy is terrible.

Well we agree on this. There should be a vet or another up and coming SS on our squad. Hell, another free safety wouldn't hurt either. I don't know why we bother with Moore still.

[jaylen]

Originally Posted by silverspring

Jaylen I hear you, but I think you are putting coaching issues on Reed Doughty.
#1 We can't blame doughty because the coaching staff doesn't find adequate depth.
#2 We can't blame doughty if the coaching staff puts him in a position where he has to play in space when we know he shouldn't be.
#3 It isn't Doughty's fault landry is made of glass.

Okay all very very fair points.

Originally Posted by silverspring

I say he should be riding the bench because he is without question a backup, that is his role. It isn't his fault Landry is always hurt. Doughty is a backup constantly called into a starter role. But he is a backup and for being one, he is taking care of business. Consider that the guy has more tackles than london fletcher; he must be performing his job as required in order to be in position to make those tackles. No, he isn't the best athlete and when he takes a bad angle he can't overcome it with his speed. But it seems to me that he is doing quite a few things right if he is always in position to make those tackles.

again tackling stats are very overrated and generally when your secondary is leading in tackles its problematic for the defense no team wants their leading tacklers to generally be their safeties because they are the last line of defense.

But my issue with you here is saying Douthy is taking care of business based on what raw tackle stats lol seriously what does that prove. if he weren't leading the team would that alter your opinion lol it wouldn't mines.

Based on whats actually happening Douthy has been terrible, he misses tackles, gets dragged when he does engage, is constantly out of position in coverage.

I mean what more evidence needed to show you how terrible Douthy has been.

I submit the idea that Douthy isn't even back up worthy. A backup should be an adequate replacemnt not to the level of the starter but someone who can come in and hold the fort down respectably, maybe not make as many plays but prevent plays from happening. and Douthy does neither.

Gomes the rook made more plays in the preseason than Douthy did.

[jaylen]

Originally Posted by silverspring

By that logic Landry should be off the team as well.
.

Landry can cover get outta here with this he is no where near as horrible as Douthy is in coverage no where close to as bad.

[Gravy]

Originally Posted by silverspring

By that logic Landry should be off the team as well.

Again, have you seen Doughty? Landry can cover...Doughty can't! Doughty makes most of his tackles on Special Teams (that is why he has high tackle numbers). Other times he has made tackles because he let his guy, as always, catch his ball because he is a step behind him, as always. Doughty is a great guy. An amazing family man. He is a hard worker. He will probably be a coach in this league or at least college. But all of that does not equate to being good in the NFL.

[Monk4HOF]

Most of Doughty's tackles are just touching a WR who just slid to catch a pass or ushering him out of bounds after making a catch. He is terrible as a cover safety and should be restricted to STs.

[OCSkinzFan]

This is how bad Doughty is.

[OCSkinzFan]

But I thought this was a Westbrook thread Lol

I give props to those of you that are willing to admit that Westy and Doughty helped us win.

Gracias Amigos

[silverspring]

Originally Posted by jaylen

Okay all very very fair points.




again tackling stats are very overrated and generally when your secondary is leading in tackles its problematic for the defense no team wants their leading tacklers to generally be their safeties because they are the last line of defense.

But my issue with you here is saying Douthy is taking care of business based on what raw tackle stats lol seriously what does that prove. if he weren't leading the team would that alter your opinion lol it wouldn't mines.

Based on whats actually happening Douthy has been terrible, he misses tackles, gets dragged when he does engage, is constantly out of position in coverage.

I mean what more evidence needed to show you how terrible Douthy has been.

If you want to complain that the secondary leading tackling is a problem, feel free, but don't blame that on doughty, take it up with the coaches. If doughty was as bad as you guys were making him out to be, he would be missing endless tackles of players already in the secondary and allowing big play after big play.

I also hope you then apply that same standard to landry's good season last year. The fact is that the system is designed to send tackles to the SS. Doughty is making them, just like landry did last year. No he isn't doing anything spectacular and he isn't knocking people out, but he is making the plays he is suppose to.

Right now the evidence points to doughty being successful on the field. I wish we had stats on mis-tackles. Then, we could really put your complaints to the test in context of all the players. But we don't and I can't agree with your vague assessment.

Originally Posted by jaylen

I submit the idea that Douthy isn't even back up worthy. A backup should be an adequate replacemnt not to the level of the starter but someone who can come in and hold the fort down respectably, maybe not make as many plays but prevent plays from happening. and Douthy does neither.

You sound like Keino with this argument, so I will respond the same. I believe landry was the leading tackler last year, now Doughty is, sounds pretty adequate to me. But landry is suppose to be an all-pro safety, he was drafted 6th overall in the draft as opposed to doughty who was drafted in the 6th round. If you don't expect a real step down from Landry to Doughty then you are living on the moon. I think you can agree that it is a much smaller step than most of our depth, say o-line for instance.

Originally Posted by jaylen

Gomes the rook made more plays in the preseason than Douthy did.

I believe Gomes is backing up FS not SS, but I have no problem giving him a shot.

Originally Posted by jaylen

Landry can cover get outta here with this he is no where near as horrible as Douthy is in coverage no where close to as bad.

Landry has major flaws in coverage. He is better than doughty, but not all that much.


You guys can keep hating on doughty, but it seems misplaced. Instead you should hate on the last 3 defensive coaching staffs for continuing to give him chance after chance and not bringing in adequate competition.

[jaylen]

Originally Posted by silverspring

If you want to complain that the secondary leading tackling is a problem, feel free, but don't blame that on doughty, take it up with the coaches. If doughty was as bad as you guys were making him out to be, he would be missing endless tackles of players already in the secondary and allowing big play after big play.

I also hope you then apply that same standard to landry's good season last year. The fact is that the system is designed to send tackles to the SS. Doughty is making them, just like landry did last year. No he isn't doing anything spectacular and he isn't knocking people out, but he is making the plays he is suppose to.

Right now the evidence points to doughty being successful on the field. I wish we had stats on mis-tackles. Then, we could really put your complaints to the test in context of all the players. But we don't and I can't agree with your vague assessment.

shall I post the articles ripping Douthy's performance in week 1 will that bring clarity to you that he struggled or should I post video of the missed plays on the field Its like you haven't actual watched the games but are randomly viewing blank stats and saying ah ha he is being successfull. When thats not even reotely related to the actual product on the field as someone mentioned outhy gets most of his tackles on special teams anyway.

You wanna create this fantasy about Douthy being a good back up. which is crap . You say making plays he's supposed to what about the whiff on jacobs on the goaline what about the 2 blown coverages as highlighted by Troy Aikman via slow motion that showed Douthy being woefully out of position on 2 big plays that led directly to tds. Is that making he plays he's supposed to.

what about the wiffs against wells this past weekend. Were is evidence that he's making the plays he's supposed to be making. Its not there at all.

I will not even engage your lunacy about a compaison of Landry and Douthy as players. You wana think they are in the same boat as players continue on if you wish.

Read this Article right here about reed Douthy from the post with his comments. lol http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...SDNK_blog.html

Originally Posted by silverspring

You sound like Keino with this argument, so I will respond the same. I believe landry was the leading tackler last year, now Doughty is, sounds pretty adequate to me. But landry is suppose to be an all-pro safety, he was drafted 6th overall in the draft as opposed to doughty who was drafted in the 6th round. If you don't expect a real step down from Landry to Doughty then you are living on the moon. I think you can agree that it is a much smaller step than most of our depth, say o-line for instance.

this is the most asinine line of thinking I can imagine at this point. landry got raves not because of the tackles stats he made but because of the plays he made he was knocking the ball lose getting sacks and timely picks being great in games all around till the injuries took him down.

all I'm seeing from Douthy is missing tackles and blowing assignments being out of postion something awful which is leading to teas scoring points.

where a player is drafted after they become vets is irrelevant I will give no player a pass wants he becomes a vet based on where the hell he was drafted is that cause to always excuse bad performance.

Landy is waay better than Douthy who got no interes aside from the Skins this offseason which is telling the moment Landry hits the open market he'll get jumped by teams.

so yeah the drop off is steep and apparent to all, players, coaches, and opponents. Haslett said Landry is the best player he's ever coached if thats not a rave I have no idea what is he's never come close to lauding Douthy that way. so stop marginalizing the difference as players.

Originally Posted by silverspring

Landry has major flaws in coverage. He is better than doughty, but not all that much.


You guys can keep hating on doughty, but it seems misplaced. Instead you should hate on the last 3 defensive coaching staffs for continuing to give him chance after chance and not bringing in adequate competition.

I'm not hating on Douthy at all I'm just speaking on what I have seen for years outta that scrub and thats what he is.

Landry does not have major flaws in coverage he's solid Douthy is horrible has been beaten more than I care to remember. Has killed the Skins repeatedly being on the field.

If Douthy actually played as well as your delusion lends itself then I would give him credit I have no other reason to hate him other than what he's done in hurting the Skins team desperately.

[nicefellow31]

Pro Football Focus reviews every play of every game. Here is what they said about Doughty in the Giants game. Note, they are Doughty fans.

3) Reed, oh Reed

Football fans who don’t like Reed Doughty have no soul. You’ve got to love the way he plays and how he gives it his all, but unfortunately sometimes that just isn’t enough in the NFL. Here we had him graded as -6.5 overall and let me tell you writing that hurts.

I’ve said it before that he doesn’t have the range to play deep, and he looked exposed at times in that regard. Not only did he allow four out of four passes into his coverage for 93 yards, but it was painfully obvious he was out of his league. To make matters worse, he was overly aggressive in run defense (perhaps to make up for his errors on the back-end) and ended up missing three tackles. Let’s hope this was a one off, otherwise LaRon Landry better get back sooner rather than later.

He also made their All-Had a Bad Day Team.

Safeties: Reed Doughty (-6.5), Washington Redskins and Kendrick Lewis (-3.9), Kanas City Chiefs

Reed, what happened? Once the apple of our eye after a superb 2009 season, he managed to miss three tackles in this one and give up 93 yards in the air. As for Lewis, well anyone that saw his blown coverage will be wondering just how bad a pairing KC can put at safety with Eric Berry out.

So it's not just us. They haven't done the Week 2 review yet, but it will be interesting to see what they say.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by silverspring

By that logic Landry should be off the team as well.

Do yourself a favor and go look at their respective stats, specifically INT and PD stats. Feel free to look at the years when Landry was being played out of position. They don't support your point of view that the players are comparable at all. Nor does anyone who observes the game and understands what they are seeing.

Comparing Doughty and Landry is like digging for Iron Pyrite instead of gold. Foolish.

[HanburgerBum]

Originally Posted by Red Bear

youre a detractor for about 90% of the players we bring in. Westbrook has improved every year he has been here, plus he came up the hard way, undrafted and two years on the practice squad before finally earning a spot on the roster, a true homegrown player for this team. he has performed pretty well when pressed into duty at CB and is solid on special teams. what more do you want from your 5th corner?




seriously though, doughty takes a lot of heat here and deservedly so, but atleast give him credit for making a clear recovery of the fumble...

I am often wrong, but I call them as I see them.

As for Westbrook, I still don't see him as a NFL-caliber cover corner. But, the 5th corner is usually a special teamer. So, I can see why he is on the roster. I do have high hopes for Brandyn Thompson--he may turn out to be the "sleeper" of our 2011 draft.

[shally]

Originally Posted by HanburgerBum

I am often wrong, but I call them as I see them.

As for Westbrook, I still don't see him as a NFL-caliber cover corner. But, the 5th corner is usually a special teamer. So, I can see why he is on the roster. I do have high hopes for Brandyn Thompson--he may turn out to be the "sleeper" of our 2011 draft.

we will get a feel for how the coaches feel about Thompson and Gomes when Buchanon and Moore come off the suspended/PUP lists respectively.. my guess is that both of the older guys are released at that point

[The Rex Machine]

Westbrook

[HanburgerBum]

Originally Posted by shally

we will get a feel for how the coaches feel about Thompson and Gomes when Buchanon and Moore come off the suspended/PUP lists respectively.. my guess is that both of the older guys are released at that point

I would certainly release Buchanon. As for Moore, that's a closer call. The Skins are not overloaded with safeties. Let's see if Landry can recover from injuries and get on the field. Let's see if Atogwe plays better--I would say he has been okay, but not knocking my sox off. And, let's see if Gomes can actually play at this level.