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  #61  
Old 11-02-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wide_awake View Post
Couldn't agree more. Chris is the opposite of what has destroyed this team: appropriate salary, consistency, high character, performance, team-player. It's amazing how quickly everyone forgets that Cooley was one of the very few bright spots on this team until recently due to his injuries.

Because he's on IR now he should "shut up" like he's some sort of scrub who has no say over this team? Cooley is the player who actually PLAYS THROUGH ALL THIS TURNOVER WE ALL LOATHE. If anyone is aware of how counter productive it is to constantly change it up it is him, so why does everyone think they know so much more than him? Fans know more about how well the players respond to overhauls than actual players who have been through 8 years of it? Is it possible that some more consistency with Shanahan, despite his flaws, is a greater long term organizational move than another QUICK regime change? This is just as much his team as it is ours to root for. He could have easily bolted for a better organization at his last contract extension but he didn't. He choose to stay here, one of the reasons being the fans. And I'd imagine that's a big reason. So the guys says some comments that some people don't like and it's "keep your mouth shut! I would have traded you years ago and got something for you!"

It boggles my mind. Cooley is one of the few players who have kept me sane during the last decade of being a 'Skins fan. If anyone has earned my respect, and deserves every benefit of the doubt possible it is Chris Cooley.
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  #62  
Old 11-02-2011, 10:13 PM
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Gotta agree with Cooley here. If any player has earned our respect as a true Redskin, it's Cooley.

Changing coaches & management every 2 years is not going to get this team anywhere. I'm not happy with everything Shanny has done but he at least deserves 3 full seasons to set the team in the proper direction.
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  #63  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by WinnpegSkinsFan View Post
Gotta agree with Cooley here. If any player has earned our respect as a true Redskin, it's Cooley.

Changing coaches & management every 2 years is not going to get this team anywhere. I'm not happy with everything Shanny has done but he at least deserves 3 full seasons to set the team in the proper direction.
Then perhaps Danny should take the time and get it right in the first place.

If we are all honest we could have given these past two seasons to Zorn and it would have been no worse than what we have seen. The progress has been minimal on the field. The talent on this team is well below standards required to be competitive in the schemes we run. I could go on and on and I am sure you would argue with me.

All I have ever asked of each regime we see is start by putting building blocks in place. Forget win now, just take your lumps and build a team. That means build the lines, find a QB, trust the draft, find playmakers, find proper fits for the schemes you run.

Shanahan has failed at every turn and by your reckoning has one more season to sort it out. Well he has a lot of work to do in one season.

If he goes out and gets interior lineman, gets a QB and gets a true NT in this offseason I will consider that a start and give him the benefit of the doubt. Nevermind he should have done this already, it might be the progress we should have already seen.
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  #64  
Old 11-03-2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
This is quite a thorough fail by me, I guess. I missed a point (intentionally, no less), then couldn't even pull off a snark. I feel like horse's patoot.
Yawn.

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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
All I know is that quite a few fans in this thread seemed very upset with Cooley's comments. I, however, nodded my head with every word. The hypocrisy of knee-jerk fans who rip Snyder upsets me as well and I have no problem with Cooley taking a jab at them.
For a change, maybe you should read what people actually wrote.
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  #65  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by wide_awake View Post
Couldn't agree more. Chris is the opposite of what has destroyed this team: appropriate salary, consistency, high character, performance, team-player. It's amazing how quickly everyone forgets that Cooley was one of the very few bright spots on this team until recently due to his injuries.

Because he's on IR now he should "shut up" like he's some sort of scrub who has no say over this team? Cooley is the player who actually PLAYS THROUGH ALL THIS TURNOVER WE ALL LOATHE. If anyone is aware of how counter productive it is to constantly change it up it is him, so why does everyone think they know so much more than him? Fans know more about how well the players respond to overhauls than actual players who have been through 8 years of it? Is it possible that some more consistency with Shanahan, despite his flaws, is a greater long term organizational move than another QUICK regime change? This is just as much his team as it is ours to root for. He could have easily bolted for a better organization at his last contract extension but he didn't. He choose to stay here, one of the reasons being the fans. And I'd imagine that's a big reason. So the guys says some comments that some people don't like and it's "keep your mouth shut! I would have traded you years ago and got something for you!"

It boggles my mind. Cooley is one of the few players who have kept me sane during the last decade of being a 'Skins fan. If anyone has earned my respect, and deserves every benefit of the doubt possible it is Chris Cooley.
No he should shut-up because he is ripping people who care far more about the franchise and its current pitiful state than most of his own teammates and he should shut-up because calls for Kyle's incompetence to be removed and the taint of Shanhan nepotism aren't evidence of hypocrisy but are legitimate criticisms.
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #66  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:19 AM
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For a change, maybe you should read what people actually wrote.
So if I take this unorthodox step and "read" the posts in the thread, your contention is that I'll find people aren't angry about Cooley's comments?
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  #67  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:48 AM
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No he should shut-up because he is ripping people who care far more about the franchise and its current pitiful state than most of his own teammates and he should shut-up because calls for Kyle's incompetence to be removed and the taint of Shanhan nepotism aren't evidence of hypocrisy but are legitimate criticisms.
How about wanting Kyle removed after less than a full season? (which I heard quite a bit last year) Or Mike's removal after one season? Or calling for Chris Cooley to be cut hours after he goes on IR?

You'd have a case if he was only talking about Kyle Shanahan, but Cooley was making a larger point that some of us agree with.
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  #68  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:58 AM
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Then perhaps Danny should take the time and get it right in the first place.

If we are all honest we could have given these past two seasons to Zorn and it would have been no worse than what we have seen. The progress has been minimal on the field. The talent on this team is well below standards required to be competitive in the schemes we run. I could go on and on and I am sure you would argue with me.
All I have ever asked of each regime we see is start by putting building blocks in place. Forget win now, just take your lumps and build a team. That means build the lines, find a QB, trust the draft, find playmakers, find proper fits for the schemes you run.

Shanahan has failed at every turn and by your reckoning has one more season to sort it out. Well he has a lot of work to do in one season.

If he goes out and gets interior lineman, gets a QB and gets a true NT in this offseason I will consider that a start and give him the benefit of the doubt. Nevermind he should have done this already, it might be the progress we should have already seen.
1. I'm not arguing with you - we don't have the talent level to be a competitve playoff team. This is true of the QB & Oline most notably. We are not where I would like to be but cutting bait at this time gets us nowhere.

2. he has made some attempts to address the talent issues on this team. he did sign Chester for the Oline and got Williams & Brown last year. I will agree that he hasn't done enough as he could have. He should have drafted Oline instead of royster & robinson last draft.
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  #69  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
So if I take this unorthodox step and "read" the posts in the thread, your contention is that I'll find people aren't angry about Cooley's comments?
Most people who criticized his comments criticized that he was focusing on criticism of the team instead of focusing on the glaring issues that the team has. Cooley has a track record of this also. Saying that people are "angry" is false.

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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
How about wanting Kyle removed after less than a full season? (which I heard quite a bit last year) Or Mike's removal after one season? Or calling for Chris Cooley to be cut hours after he goes on IR?

You'd have a case if he was only talking about Kyle Shanahan, but Cooley was making a larger point that some of us agree with.
Thats a straw man argument. You're trying to associate everyone who disagrees with the direction of the team(and has said so) with all the arguments about what should change regardless if they said it or not. I think Kyle should have been fired when they dumped McNabb(mostly because of the message that it would send to the team), Kyle should be fired because he's an incompetent coach. I've also said many times publicly that Shanny deserves more time--especially if he flushes his disasters of coordinators. As for cutting Cooley: thats being speculated in the press because of his large contract and the emergence of Fred Davis(putting aside the wisdom of resigning him). Thats not "fans" saying he should be cut. Thats the CW in the league that Cooley might be gone. Cooley should focus his rage at the media for speculating about it(assuming it is speculation and not coming from Ashburn).
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  #70  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:23 AM
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To be fair, I said I was pissed about the comments and I am. I won't go into the ways I have supported this team while Cooley has been on the roster, but financially, they are nothing to sneeze at and I would prefer he direct his comments toward himself, his teammates and coaches rather than people like myself who have the audacity to suggest that maybe Kyle sucks and is being protected from on high by his father.
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Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #71  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:31 AM
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Most people who criticized his comments criticized that he was focusing on criticism of the team instead of focusing on the glaring issues that the team has. Cooley has a track record of this also. Saying that people are "angry" is false.

Thats a straw man argument. You're trying to associate everyone who disagrees with the direction of the team(and has said so) with all the arguments about what should change regardless if they said it or not.[/b] I think Kyle should have been fired when they dumped McNabb(mostly because of the message that it would send to the team), Kyle should be fired because he's an incompetent coach. I've also said many times publicly that Shanny deserves more time--especially if he flushes his disasters of coordinators. As for cutting Cooley: thats being speculated in the press because of his large contract and the emergence of Fred Davis(putting aside the wisdom of resigning him). Thats not "fans" saying he should be cut. Thats the CW in the league that Cooley might be gone. Cooley should focus his rage at the media for speculating about it(assuming it is speculation and not coming from Ashburn).
-Stop it. People in this thread were angry.

-I was addressing a specific point made by a poster. No straw man.
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  #72  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Keino View Post
To be fair, I said I was pissed about the comments and I am. I won't go into the ways I have supported this team while Cooley has been on the roster, but financially, they are nothing to sneeze at and I would prefer he direct his comments toward himself, his teammates and coaches rather than people like myself who have the audacity to suggest that maybe Kyle sucks and is being protected from on high by his father.
Believe me, I understand the nature of your beef given the state of the franchise.

But you gotta realize the context of the comments. He goes on that radio station every week and field questions directly from the fans. I like the fact he makes himself available like that. Fans are addressing him and I think he should be able to address them back.
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  #73  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:39 AM
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You think this hurts Cooley? For a guy potentially facing a "should we cut/trade him?" situation I think coming out in support of the franchise and HC is a great move. Being a company man right now is in Cooley's best interests if he wants to remain in D.C.
Something tells me that acknowledging in public that the fan base hates the owner is not a ticket to longevity in a Skins uni. Even though he is defending Snyder, Snyder does not like to read in print how much he is hated by the fans-and to hear if from one of his own players is not going to sit well with the Danny. I hope I am wrong, because I like Cooley a lot, but I don't think a comment like that helps him stick around next year. Snyder has been known to be very petty and as we know has a thin skin for personal criticism.
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Everything this organization has done recently has been wrong. Hire a college football legend, bring back a NFL legend, hire a so called wunderkid co-ordinator as head coach, hire another NFL legend, make a big splash in free agency, make a moderate splash in free agency, stay out of free agency, medlesome owner, laid back owner, trade down with high draft picks, hold on to our high draft pick, trade for vets..................none of it has worked. I think we as fans (I know I am) are just puzzled right now and grasping for straws just like the Skins.
We have tried everything but a classic rebuild. We thought Shanahan would do just that upon arrival last year, but he vastly overrated the talent on the roster and thought he could win right away without suffering the pains of a rebuild (i.e., re-tool, not rebuild). That mentality led him to the disastrous trade for McNabb. Less than a year into it, he realized that our roster stank, and so the next off-season he began the rebuild by trading down to accumulate volume in the draft, and waiting to improve the roster elseqhere before bringing in a young franchise QB, of which there should be several prospects in next year's draft. I would imagine he has his eye on 2-3 QBs who are expected to come out, and he will use the rest of the draft and free agency next year to try to further rebuild the roster and jettison most of our few remaining older players. The rebuild is here, the jury is still out on whether we are rebuilding with the right players and coaches. We will have more answers next year. I was ready to take my lumps this year, so 3-4 does not upset me so long as we stay the course and continue our rebuild next year with the same philosophies. By this time next year, we will know if we are headed towards success or failure.
Starting over at this point with a whole new coaching staff would be counter-productive and would set us back another 3 years. We have to give Shanahan a full chance, no matter how hard the growing pains.
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Couldn't agree more. Chris is the opposite of what has destroyed this team: appropriate salary, consistency, high character, performance, team-player. It's amazing how quickly everyone forgets that Cooley was one of the very few bright spots on this team until recently due to his injuries.

Because he's on IR now he should "shut up" like he's some sort of scrub who has no say over this team? Cooley is the player who actually PLAYS THROUGH ALL THIS TURNOVER WE ALL LOATHE. If anyone is aware of how counter productive it is to constantly change it up it is him, so why does everyone think they know so much more than him? Fans know more about how well the players respond to overhauls than actual players who have been through 8 years of it? Is it possible that some more consistency with Shanahan, despite his flaws, is a greater long term organizational move than another QUICK regime change? This is just as much his team as it is ours to root for. He could have easily bolted for a better organization at his last contract extension but he didn't. He choose to stay here, one of the reasons being the fans. And I'd imagine that's a big reason. So the guys says some comments that some people don't like and it's "keep your mouth shut! I would have traded you years ago and got something for you!"

It boggles my mind. Cooley is one of the few players who have kept me sane during the last decade of being a 'Skins fan. If anyone has earned my respect, and deserves every benefit of the doubt possible it is Chris Cooley.
Good post.
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Originally Posted by flave1969 View Post
Then perhaps Danny should take the time and get it right in the first place.

If we are all honest we could have given these past two seasons to Zorn and it would have been no worse than what we have seen. The progress has been minimal on the field. The talent on this team is well below standards required to be competitive in the schemes we run. I could go on and on and I am sure you would argue with me.

All I have ever asked of each regime we see is start by putting building blocks in place. Forget win now, just take your lumps and build a team. That means build the lines, find a QB, trust the draft, find playmakers, find proper fits for the schemes you run.

Shanahan has failed at every turn and by your reckoning has one more season to sort it out. Well he has a lot of work to do in one season.

If he goes out and gets interior lineman, gets a QB and gets a true NT in this offseason I will consider that a start and give him the benefit of the doubt. Nevermind he should have done this already, it might be the progress we should have already seen.
Comparing Shanahan to Zorn is apples and oranges on so many levels. Zorn had zero power here in Washington, and had his you-know-what cut off in front of his players by football geniuses Snyder and Cerrato. He never had a fair shot to lead this football team anywhere. Shanahan, on the other hand, has full authority over the franchise and the power to tell Snyder to back off, and also important, no Cerrato stabbing him in the back and making terrible personnel choices. Shanahan has a track record and the gravitas and reputation that come with it; Zorn could not hope to compete with that, he was trying to build it but was put in a no-win situation. Most importantly, Zorn was given what was nominally a playoff team (a terrible roster coached to maximum performance by Joe Gibbs) and told to make the playoffs with it, when in reality it needed what Shanahan is giving it now, a total rebuild. Comparing Zorn and Shanahan is, IMHO, pointless. The situations are just too different to warrant comparison.
Pointing to similar records after a similar number of games is misleading and besides the point.
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  #74  
Old 11-03-2011, 09:46 AM
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It's hard to view what has occurred as a rebuild given the number of older players that were signed, the failure to infuse the interior offensive line with youth and the failure to have even one developmental QB on the Roster. Moreover, I am loath to call the current pains "Growing Pains" given that they are showing regression rather than growth. Growing pains I can and will tolerate. Nepotism, inferior playcalling and failing to scheme to the talent on the roster I will not tolerate. I am happy to give Shanahan additional time, but he has to make changes at the Coordinator level, whether that is outright firing, bringing on bingo calling assistants/consultants or taking control over some aspects of the job. But he cannot continue to sell me on the idea that the current structure is working when it is plainly not.
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Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #75  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:24 AM
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It's hard to view what has occurred as a rebuild given the number of older players that were signed, the failure to infuse the interior offensive line with youth and the failure to have even one developmental QB on the Roster. Moreover, I am loath to call the current pains "Growing Pains" given that they are showing regression rather than growth. Growing pains I can and will tolerate. Nepotism, inferior playcalling and failing to scheme to the talent on the roster I will not tolerate. I am happy to give Shanahan additional time, but he has to make changes at the Coordinator level, whether that is outright firing, bringing on bingo calling assistants/consultants or taking control over some aspects of the job. But he cannot continue to sell me on the idea that the current structure is working when it is plainly not.
The only older guys we have signed are Gaffney and Stallworth. I view them as 1-year stopgaps to prevent a total meltdown of the passing game while our young WRs learn the game. It has not worked out well, and I said at the time I would not not have signed either player but instead let Armstrong and Austin develop while the three rookie WRs take their lumps on the field and in practice. Shanahan opted to sign 2 veterans, probably because rookie WRs habitually are the least likely to contribute to a team in their rookie year, and our top WR pick (Hankerson) was known to be far from ready.

I disagree with the nepotism argument-Kyle was already a coordinator and was considered a rising star in the league. He had options and would have had more. He has shown to my mind at least that he can call plays-he just does not have the horses to compete. When he does, I think our offense will be dynamic. We just need to improve our OL, have a couple of our young WRs step up to stardom, and most importantly, get a QB. Again, this all goes back to the fact we are rebuilding a roster that suffered from 10 years of neglect by a couple of imcompetents who didn't realize how little they knew about building a roster. You don't recover from 10 years of terrible personnel moves in 2 years. When we have the thoroughbreds, we will win the race.
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