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  #91  
Old 11-03-2011, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
-I don't recall thinking those two were angry.

-You've criticized me for doing something. I'm defending myself.
Responding to this would require me repeating myself and pointing out your comments in a futile attempt to try and get you to address something directly. It isn't worth my time when you're filibustering a thread.
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  #92  
Old 11-03-2011, 12:14 PM
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Responding to this would require me repeating myself and pointing out your comments in a futile attempt to try and get you to address something directly. It isn't worth my time when you're filibustering a thread.
It takes two to tango, my filibustering brother.
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  #93  
Old 11-03-2011, 12:34 PM
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It takes two to tango, my filibustering brother.
I'm focusing on the points at hand in this thread. You try to bog things down in pointless discussions about semantics to bury the points in the thread(why is another matter). I don't filibuster, you almost do nothing else but filibuster threads now. I'm not the only person who's pointed this out. If you want to continue this, PM me. Im done feeding your filibustering.
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  #94  
Old 11-03-2011, 01:05 PM
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I'm focusing on the points at hand in this thread. You try to bog things down in pointless discussions about semantics to bury the points in the thread(why is another matter). I don't filibuster, you almost do nothing else but filibuster threads now. I'm not the only person who's pointed this out. If you want to continue this, PM me. Im done feeding your filibustering.
Your habit with me these days is to engage in a back-and-forth and then at some point decide you're done. Instead of posting something civil like "let's agree to disagree," you step back and blame me for clogging up the debate by participating in what is most certainly a two-way conversation. Apparently because I have a different opinion I'm not focusing on the points at hand, like you are.

When I write that I stand by a specific point and if you'd like to continue you can PM me, you decline. And then you spend 3 or 4 more posts debating. That would be fine if you didn't follow this up by writing that all I do is filibuster threads and I should PM you. Huh?

All I'm saying here is that this is a two-way street. If I'm guilty of the above things then so are you.
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  #95  
Old 11-03-2011, 01:42 PM
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And CNY and Nicefellow.



I guess you can't stop trying to bury everything down in semantics lol
If you PM who's going to know your right?
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  #96  
Old 11-03-2011, 01:44 PM
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If you PM who's going to know your right?
If i cared about such things, I would mention it lol.
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  #97  
Old 11-03-2011, 02:09 PM
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If i cared about such things, I would mention it lol.
Oh you've "mentioned" it. There are countless pages of that. It doesn't look like there is anything more important to you than proving that you are right.
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  #98  
Old 11-03-2011, 02:35 PM
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Oh you've "mentioned" it. There are countless pages of that. It doesn't look like there is anything more important to you than proving that you are right.
If it was really about "being right" for me, I would have addressed your long post. I disagreed with what you wrote, but its not about having the last word or being "right" for me. I let dozens of posts/threads I disagree with go without a comment from me for the same reason. This meme is odd since my point about Cooley's comments is more about that players shouldn't engage with fans in the way he did in general, which really couldn't be an issue of right/wrong: I stated a general opinion. I took issue with Cal trying to hold everyone he disagreed with as culpable for the "fans" Cooley was complaining about. You can believe whatever you want to, but I know whats important to me and what's not.

My point with Cal in this thread is that his reaction to being questioned is to play the semantics game. Im not the only person who's pointed this out of late. When he was pressed in this thread, his retort was to try to link those who disagreed with him with a straw man of his own creation. When I pointed out that he was doing that, his tactic was to try and doubleback on the discussion and attempt to change the point to something unrelated. I brought up "lets more it to PMs" like I often do when the thread is devolving into a discussion like that since the management here doesn't like it when threads get bogged down.
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  #99  
Old 11-03-2011, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
My point with Cal in this thread is that his reaction to being questioned is to play the semantics game. Im not the only person who's pointed this out of late. When he was pressed in this thread, his retort was to try to link those who disagreed with him with a straw man of his own creation. When I pointed out that he was doing that, his tactic was to try and doubleback on the discussion and attempt to change the point to something unrelated. I brought up "lets more it to PMs" like I often do when the thread is devolving into a discussion like that since the management here doesn't like it when threads get bogged down.
At least you're committed to this nonsense, Akh - I have to give you credit for that.
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  #100  
Old 11-03-2011, 02:55 PM
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At least you're committed to this nonsense, Akh - I have to give you credit for that.
I'm far from the only person who's seeing what I'm seeing in your postings of late. Its an accurate description of your rhetoric in this thread.
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  #101  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:14 PM
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I'm far from the only person who's seeing what I'm seeing in your postings of late. Its an accurate description of your rhetoric in this thread.
Who cares what anybody else thinks? You and are having a discussion, why on earth does it matter what another person believes?

If you were convinced I was wrong, would it change your mind if somebody else agreed with me? I think you are equally culpable in these "charges" you've recently started lobbying against me every third post and I don't really care if somebody else disagrees.

Since you're such a fan of logical fallacies why don't you Google "Appeal to the masses."
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  #102  
Old 11-03-2011, 03:20 PM
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Who cares what anybody else thinks? You and are having a discussion, why on earth does it matter what another person believes?

If you were convinced I was wrong, would it change your mind if somebody else agreed with me? I think you are equally culpable in these "charges" you've recently started lobbying against me every third post and I don't really care if somebody else disagrees.
I'm describing your rhetoric as XYZ. I'm not saying that others agree with the substance of the discussion here. I'm saying you're doing XYZ. Its been pointed out in other threads by other posters what you've been doing. So, its not just me seeing it.

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Originally Posted by cal_junior View Post
Since you're such a fan of logical fallacies why don't you Google "Appeal to the masses."
You'd fail a logic class with that premise since I'm not making a proposition lol. I'm not saying that since a large number of people agree with me, my comments about your comments re: Cooley have to be correct. I'm talking about something you're doing in your rhetoric. And again: its been pointed out in different places by different people.
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  #103  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:43 PM
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I'm describing your rhetoric as XYZ. I'm not saying that others agree with the substance of the discussion here. I'm saying you're doing XYZ. Its been pointed out in other threads by other posters what you've been doing. So, its not just me seeing it.



You'd fail a logic class with that premise since I'm not making a proposition lol. I'm not saying that since a large number of people agree with me, my comments about your comments re: Cooley have to be correct. I'm talking about something you're doing in your rhetoric. And again: its been pointed out in different places by different people.
I don't think your fallacy is related to Cooley. The current substance of the discussion isn't about Cooley, as you make clear with the paragraph that begins: "My point with Cal in this thread . . . " You've been harping on how I don't stick to the subject matter at hand - you know, my "tactics." Whether you realize it or not, I think you're trying to strengthen that argument by using the opinion of others. People have said things on this board about both of us that relate to debate style, you are the only one who keeps adding it to your posts.
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  #104  
Old 11-03-2011, 07:54 PM
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Comparing Shanahan to Zorn is apples and oranges on so many levels. Zorn had zero power here in Washington, and had his you-know-what cut off in front of his players by football geniuses Snyder and Cerrato. He never had a fair shot to lead this football team anywhere. Shanahan, on the other hand, has full authority over the franchise and the power to tell Snyder to back off, and also important, no Cerrato stabbing him in the back and making terrible personnel choices. Shanahan has a track record and the gravitas and reputation that come with it; Zorn could not hope to compete with that, he was trying to build it but was put in a no-win situation. Most importantly, Zorn was given what was nominally a playoff team (a terrible roster coached to maximum performance by Joe Gibbs) and told to make the playoffs with it, when in reality it needed what Shanahan is giving it now, a total rebuild. Comparing Zorn and Shanahan is, IMHO, pointless. The situations are just too different to warrant comparison.
Pointing to similar records after a similar number of games is misleading and besides the point.


No it is exactly the point and not at all misleading. The more things change the more they stay the same with this franchise, because it hasn't really changed.

All the underlying mistakes being made are exactly the same. Nothing has changed with the way this franchise approaches building a team. It has been a disjointed makeshift disaster for the past four seasons with a catalogue of errors made. It does not matter who made them, they have been made and oft repeated.

Despite all the advantages afforded him Shanahan has done squat to move this franchise to a better footing. Zorn in a worse situation as you point out did no worse and if this is what regime change has brought us then it might as well have stayed the same.

I am not interested in the comparisons you made, that's why i didn't make any in the first place it was merely a statement. What I am interested in is tangible results. Two different GM's, two different HC, same predictable results. if this franchise was prepared to take its lumps in a bid to win I would be fully behind whoever runs the ship. However we sit here two years in, with a second season on the verge of meltdown and a complete rebuild still needs to be undertaken.

So whether it is Zorn or Shanahan, we are still thrashing about using quick fixes rather than building a team the right way. So I state again for all the good it has done us it might as well have been Zorn carrying on muddling through because Shanahan has not taken this team anywhere.
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  #105  
Old 11-03-2011, 08:18 PM
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I don't think your fallacy is related to Cooley. The current substance of the discussion isn't about Cooley, as you make clear with the paragraph that begins: "My point with Cal in this thread . . . " You've been harping on how I don't stick to the subject matter at hand - you know, my "tactics." Whether you realize it or not, I think you're trying to strengthen that argument by using the opinion of others. People have said things on this board about both of us that relate to debate style, you are the only one who keeps adding it to your posts.
Thats still not an argumentum ad populum fallacy. I'm not saying that "a large amount of people think XYZ" or "a majority of people in the thread think you're doing XYZ." I'm saying that in my opinion you're doing XYZ. Pointing out that others people see the same thing I am isn't a fallacy.

Let me put it in different terms: If you started at QB for the skins against Buffalo, an argumentum ad populum fallacy would be:
"HR did an online poll, and Cal Jr the considered opinion of the board is that you royally sucked donkey balls at QB against Bufallo"
or
"No one defended Cal jr's play in the Buffalo game at all, even though he had 250 yards and 2 TDs(and 5 turnovers lol)"

Saying that: "In my opinion, Cal Jr's play in the Buffalo game showed me that he couldn't hit a hooker in a whore house because he drops his throwing arm too low and freezes when blitzed up the middle....and Such and Such(for the sake of argument, lets say Peter King or some other pundit) totally agreed with all my points about his play" isn't a fallacy. Even if you replace "peter king or some other pundit" with "some other members of the board who saw the exact same things I'm seeing."
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