Simple Question for Republicans and Conservatives

[Ibleedburgundy]

Can you name a single policy that Republicans and conservatives currently support that would help the lower class have a net increase to their incomes?

[akhhorus]

Is it required for both parties and every economic plan to include making the lower classes' net income rise? I have no problem letting them still pay no tax, but economic policy should be focusing on getting the middle class more economically mobile imo.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by Ibleedburgundy

Can you name a single policy that Republicans and conservatives currently support that would help the lower class have a net increase to their incomes?

Why would there be? You guys are the ones who want to give people things they haven't earned. I prefer people have the opportunity to better themselves through education and hard work. Both are readily available.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Originally Posted by akkhorus

Is it required for both parties and every economic plan to include making the lower classes' net income rise?

Given the trends of economic inequality in the country, yes, it should be.

Originally Posted by akhhorus

I have no problem letting them still pay no tax, .

Not sure what you mean by "letting them still pay no tax." Anyone who works pays federal taxes. Anyone who drives a car, buys a ciggarrette, etc... But if you truly believe they should pay no tax, perhaps a payroll tax exclusion for the first $20,000 of income would make sense.

Originally Posted by akhhorus

but economic policy should be focusing on getting the middle class more economically mobile imo

To your second point, the two are hardly mutually exclusive. In fact, their aims are very much aligned.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

Why would there be? You guys are the ones who want to give people things they haven't earned. I prefer people have the opportunity to better themselves through education and hard work. Both are readily available.

There are many policies that can help the lower class increase their incomes that don't involve handouts to people who don't work.

To name a few:

increase minimum wage to a living wage

support unions for blue collar workers in the private sector

support more protectionist policies like Germany

support student loan programs

support public education

support a consumer protection agency

I could go on. But my question is as simple as it gets, and I have yet to hear an answer.

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

Why would there be? You guys are the ones who want to give people things they haven't earned. I prefer people have the opportunity to better themselves through education and hard work. Both are readily available.

I'd have more sympathy for this side of the fence if Republicans didn't coddle the most notorious takers-of-what-they-haven't-earned - corporations.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Ibleedburgundy

Given the trends of economic inequality in the country, yes, it should be.

I have zero problem with taxing millionaires higher(even millionaires support that). But the solution is to strengthen social safety nets and expand college(and especially community college) grants/cheap loans for low income people.

Originally Posted by Ibleedburgundy

Not sure what you mean by "letting them still pay no tax." Anyone who works pays federal taxes. Anyone who drives a car, buys a ciggarrette, etc... But if you truly believe they should pay no tax, perhaps a payroll tax exclusion for the first $20,000 of income would make sense.

Thats fine with me. I would even go farther and make it for the first 70k of income in exchange for a carbon tax.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by Ibleedburgundy

There are many policies that can help the lower class increase their incomes that don't involve handouts to people who don't work.

To name a few:

increase minimum wage to a living wage

Because that always fixes everything. It never has and it never will. Individual states need to decide what qualifies as a living wage, not the Feds or some bleeding heart who thinks a McDonald's worker should be able to own a home.

support unions for blue collar workers in the private sector

Or dissolve unions so they can stop making outrageous demands. Right to work states do just fine, thank you.

support more protectionist policies like Germany

Germany huh? Mmmkay

support student loan programs

What a red hearing. The current student loan programs and very generous. Talk to the liberals who run the schools if you have an issue with affordability. A college degree is attainable to those willing to work for it.

support public education

support a consumer protection agency

I could go on. But my question is as simple as it gets, and I have yet to hear an answer.

You could go on but all you want to hear is some leftist b.s. Reality is not welcome.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

I'd have more sympathy for this side of the fence if Republicans didn't coddle the most notorious takers-of-what-they-haven't-earned - corporations.

This!

[SkinsKY]

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

Why would there be? You guys are the ones who want to give people things they haven't earned. I prefer people have the opportunity to better themselves through education and hard work. Both are readily available.

Opportunity is the key word. I support people having opportunity to better thenselves. My grandfather and father busted their tail so I didn't have to be in the lower class as they were. I'm not sure why others can't do the same.

Why is it the government's job to control anyone's income?

[justinskins]

Originally Posted by SkinsKY

Opportunity is the key word. I support people having opportunity to better thenselves. My grandfather and father busted their tail so I didn't have to be in the lower class as they were. I'm not sure why others can't do the same.

I'd buy this argument, if it weren't for all the generations of people who've busted their tails and gotten next to nothing.

[SkinsKY]

Originally Posted by justinskins

I'd buy this argument, if it weren't for all the generations of people who've busted their tails and gotten next to nothing.

Unfortunately, capitalism doesn't guarantee success. That's why i said opportunity is the key word. It's not an if/then of if hard work, then you have success, but it is part of the equation. Government intervention shouldn't be.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by justinskins

I'd buy this argument, if it weren't for all the generations of people who've busted their tails and gotten next to nothing.

This doesn't exist. There is no place where generations of a family have all busted their tails and still have nothing. Unless they've chosen to live above their means or have 20 kids or whatever the reason might be, I don't buy that this happens.

I have a lot of friends who are first generation here and their parents moved to the U.S., busted their tails so their kids could have a better life and they accomplished just that. Many of them did so working blue collar jobs. If immigrants can do this, there isn't any real reason why every can't.

[RedskinsDave]

Let me add: there are plenty of people who work an honest day, support their families and don't advance much. I've worked with and employed people like this. There is nothing wrong with it but it doesn't support the idea that people bust their tails and never improve.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Originally Posted by SkinsKY

Unfortunately, capitalism doesn't guarantee success. That's why i said opportunity is the key word. It's not an if/then of if hard work, then you have success, but it is part of the equation. Government intervention shouldn't be.

So are you saying as long as a fraction of people per generation are able to demonstrate upward mobility is posible, there is absolutely no standard to which you would expect the poor to be treated in terms of income? No level of poverty or pay inequality would cause you to think there ought to be some level of Government intervention? You think the policy should be dictated by the exception - the select few - and not the many?

Right now we are headed towards an inevitable crisis. Opportunities for upward mobility have been reduced:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...-mobility.html

Pay inequality has been drastically increased, and it sure as hell isn't performance-based:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...jaH_story.html

I think the problem with your idealogy is that it doesn't acknowledge the inexorable: Not everyone can run a business, there will always be blue collar workers, there will always be a lower class. At some point this becomes a choice as a nation on how we are going to treat these people.