Simple Question for Republicans and Conservatives

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by justinskins

I think the reason people will be unenthusiastic about Obama is that he promised change and didn't deliver.

I tend to agree. I'm certainly an example of a liberal who isn't thrilled with his first term. But I'll vote for him primarily because there are four Supreme Court justices in their 70s right now and I don't want a Republican picking the next one.

[shally]

Originally Posted by Keino

I don't understand this from you and Dave. Sure, that may apply to certain white, liberal voters, but I can assure you both that blacks and young people are going to show-up at the voting booths in November.

There is a good portion of these voting segments who believe that many of the rhetorical attacks on this POTUS have been due to his race and will be motivated on that basis.

we will see how many show up... i think the GOP voters will show up in reaction to Obama's first term.. I dont think there will be the same kind of enthusiasm for Obama this tme around

turnout will surely be a key

[Keino]

Originally Posted by shally

we will see how many show up... i think the GOP voters will show up in reaction to Obama's first term.. I dont think there will be the same kind of enthusiasm for Obama this tme around

turnout will surely be a key

Again, if you guys think that Blacks aren't going to turnout in numbers similar to 2008, I'd say you guys are nutz. The youth thing could probably go either way, but I don't think young people have much love for Party of no, anti-occupy movement, perceived war on women and will be energized on that basis. For young people I've talked to, Mitt represents everything about Wall Street, right or wrong, that they cannot stand.

Of course I've talked to a number of young people who are Libertarian and/or potheads and plan to vote for Johnson.

As a social liberal, I too am disappointed by a number things with this administration, in specific, the ratcheting up (or at best status quo) of the drug war under Holder's direction, I absolutely hate the current drug Czar, I hate the sweetheart deal that was given by the FDIC to George Soros to induce him to take over the failed IndyMac Bank. I don't see those issues changing under Mitt's leadership. I do, however, appreciate the attempt to get the healthcare situation under control and get more people covered, the Mortgage Mod program (which I personally benefited from), the bailout and saving of the American auto industry, the way Al-Queda has been reduced to virtual rubble, the end of Don't ask don't tell and DOMA, the keeping of the promise to cease military ops in Iraq.

The War on Drug thing is a big deal to me, and I feel like it was one broken promise, but as I am not a single issue voter and that the only candidate proposing a real alternative there is Johnson (and he is not viable) I will be voting to stay the course.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by justinskins

I think the reason people will be unenthusiastic about Obama is that he promised change and didn't deliver.

You and your facts are not welcome in this thread.

[Keino]

Originally Posted by justinskins

I think the reason people will be unenthusiastic about Obama is that he promised change and didn't deliver.

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

You and your facts are not welcome in this thread.

Just wondering, how long exactly to you guys expect it to take him to change "the way washington does business" while fighting obstructions to any changes he proposes the whole way.

Not making excuses, as my post directly above outlines a number things that haven't come close to change, but I am wondering what the reasonable expectation was.

[RedskinsDave]

Originally Posted by Keino

Just wondering, how long exactly to you guys expect it to take him to change "the way washington does business" while fighting obstructions to any changes he proposes the whole way.

Not making excuses, as my post directly above outlines a number things that haven't come close to change, but I am wondering what the reasonable expectation was.

I had zero expectations he would change anything because I knew it was either naivety or outright ignorance that he would or could. The funny part is there didn't even appear to be an attempt.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Keino

Of course I've talked to a number of young people who are Libertarian and/or potheads and plan to vote for Johnson.

The Libertarians are going to take votes from Romney more then Obama, especially the closer they are to paultards. Potheads might not remember to vote in the first place lol.

[cal_junior]

This won't help Romney, who absolutely must win Florida IMO:

Like voters in most of the country Floridians are moving on gay marriage. They're still narrowly against it with 45% opposed and 42% supportive. But that three point margin represents an 8 point shift from last September when 48% were opposed and just 37% in support. This very much looks to be an Obama effect. Republicans and independents have moved very little on the issue but Democrats have moved 20 points from +15 support (48/33) to +35 support (61/26). The most dramatic movement has been among African Americans who've shifted 48 points from being opposed -30 in the fall (23/53) to now supporting it by 18 points (49/31).

72% of Florida voters support either gay marriage or civil unions, with only 26% opposed to any form of legal recognition. Even 61% of Republicans support some form of legal recognition for same sex couples.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/m...iscellany.html

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

This won't help Romney, who absolutely must win Florida IMO:


http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/m...iscellany.html

I don't think that will matter based on the crosstabs. If there's heavy movement among indys or Latinos in Florida, it could make a difference. Sounds like it just will help any African-American defections over gay marriage(but thats a national trend) and with Obama's base.

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

I don't think that will matter based on the crosstabs. If there's heavy movement among indys or Latinos in Florida, it could make a difference. Sounds like it just will help any African-American defections over gay marriage(but thats a national trend) and with Obama's base.

If the election comes down to Latinos Obama might be in some trouble. His deportation-heavy first term hasn't won him many friends in that voter base.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

If the election comes down to Latinos Obama might be in some trouble. His deportation-heavy first term hasn't won him many friends in that voter base.

No, but much like why you're voting for Obama, the alternative for Latinos is worse according to them(even with Rubio's Dream act lite, which is going nowhere). He really hasn't seen too much reduction in his support among them(66 to 61%).

[Keino]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

This won't help Romney, who absolutely must win Florida IMO:



http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/m...iscellany.html

It's too bad my fellow Floridians are friggin illiterate. We voted on this as a COnstitutional Amendment and 60% of our state's voters voted to define marriage as man and woman and not to (The key point that affects gays and heterosexuals) recognize any legal equivalent.

The City of St. Pete just passed a measure that at least recognizes immediate family, hospital rights etc. but that doesn't go nearly far enough to right the wrong we instituted in the last election.

[justinskins]

Originally Posted by Keino

Just wondering, how long exactly to you guys expect it to take him to change "the way washington does business" while fighting obstructions to any changes he proposes the whole way.

Not making excuses, as my post directly above outlines a number things that haven't come close to change, but I am wondering what the reasonable expectation was.

Originally Posted by RedskinsDave

I had zero expectations he would change anything because I knew it was either naivety or outright ignorance that he would or could. The funny part is there didn't even appear to be an attempt.

Largely agree with Dave on this. Maybe Obama can blame a recalcitrant Congress for the watered-down health care bill or pretty much non-existent financial industry reform (although IMO he could have shown a lot more leadership in both areas). However, foreign policy (where the President has the most authority to act unilaterally) is where it's most obvious to me that he's just not interested in shaking things up. It's pretty much same old, same old. Might as well call him Bush III.

[shally]

Originally Posted by Keino

Just wondering, how long exactly to you guys expect it to take him to change "the way washington does business" while fighting obstructions to any changes he proposes the whole way.

Not making excuses, as my post directly above outlines a number things that haven't come close to change, but I am wondering what the reasonable expectation was.

it has been "business as usual" with this administration.. they are just as cozy with most industries... you think the banks have it any worse ?

and yes, washington is doing business EXACTLY the same way under Obama as was done under every other prior administration

as for other key left issues: Guantanimo is still open and he is killing terrorists at his own whim.. what is the big difference ?

the war on drugs is insanity.. i am not a young black male, but if i were, i would have expected far more in the de-criminalization of so many minor offenses which put young black males behind bars and ruin countless lives..

and you think that more people are covered by health insurance now ? i dont think the stats show that at all

never mind the gay marriage issues, putting an end to the ridiculous ruination of lives by the war on drugs should have happened in the first 90 days of his administration.. shame on Obama for that, he should know better