Mike Shanahan, Redskins staff selected to coach Senior Bowl

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by CarMike

I can also agree with that. But I think it's human nature to try to back step. No matter how bad it looks for yourself.

I guess, but I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier for Mike S to say: "I made a mistake, I thought I could put together a playoff contender under McNabb in 2010. I screwed up and this franchise needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Please be patient, this is going to take 2-3 seasons." If he did that, imo, absolutely no one would have held the McNabb debacle, the 2010 season or even rolling with Rex for 2011 against him, even if he ended up losing 20 games total in 2011/2 because there's a clear plan of XYZ to rebuild. Can anyone say what the plan is now? It sure doesn't sound like rebuilding since the skins(players and coaches) all run their mouths about how good they are no matter what the record is.

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

I guess, but I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier for Mike S to say: "I made a mistake, I thought I could put together a playoff contender under McNabb in 2010. I screwed up and this franchise needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Please be patient, this is going to take 2-3 seasons." If he did that, imo, absolutely no one would have held the McNabb debacle, the 2010 season or even rolling with Rex for 2011 against him, even if he ended up losing 20 games total in 2011/2 because there's a clear plan of XYZ to rebuild. Can anyone say what the plan is now? It sure doesn't sound like rebuilding since the skins(players and coaches) all run their mouths about how good they are no matter what the record is.

and it isn't even about what they say publically, its about how they aquire their talent. If a team is rebuilding why do we resign a 30+ year old receiver (Moss), trade for another 30+ year old receiver (Gaffney) and sign another 30+ year old receiver (Stallworth) and give them significant minutes over 4 other wrs they drafted in the last two years.

(and before someone brings up Hankerson he got most of his playing time before hurt when Moss was hurt, it was not exactly a big coaching decision there)

Also why do we basically ignore Safety and the OL (and yes 7th round picks that are basically compensatory picks are ignoring) when our starters were shown to have injury issues?

couple these moves with the fact that we are staking our reputation on 30+ year old journeyman qbs and the FACT that the roster is not much younger overall then last year and our opening day starters were 4th in our own division in terms of age, you have to come to the conclusion Shanny was trying to win now. And if that is what he was doing, well then he failed. And we should hold him accountable for that.

[justinskins]

Originally Posted by akhhorus

I guess, but I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier for Mike S to say: "I made a mistake, I thought I could put together a playoff contender under McNabb in 2010. I screwed up and this franchise needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Please be patient, this is going to take 2-3 seasons." If he did that, imo, absolutely no one would have held the McNabb debacle, the 2010 season or even rolling with Rex for 2011 against him, even if he ended up losing 20 games total in 2011/2 because there's a clear plan of XYZ to rebuild. Can anyone say what the plan is now? It sure doesn't sound like rebuilding since the skins(players and coaches) all run their mouths about how good they are no matter what the record is.

What is this, Montel? I guess Shanahan should give a teary press conference in which he admits his mistakes and begs for more time. Then we can all talk about our feelings and hug it out.

I couldn't care less what Shanahan says, and neither should anyone else. What coaches say for public consumption, or even what they selectively leak to reporters off-the-record, is not important. All that matters is what Shanahan does.

There is debate about whether Shanahan's actions show that he is on the rebuilding track. For example, I think he finally is based on the last off-season. Others think he is still too much in "win now" mode (see CNY's post immediately above). That debate is legitimate and important.

What is not important is anything Shanahan has said or should say publicly. Even bringing it up is a waste of everyone's time.

[flave1969]

Originally Posted by CarMike

I can totally agree with that. But what got me was when certain posters was saying it's time to replace Shanny after 10 games into his first year. All because he benched a certain QB from Syracuse.

Looks like Shanny wasn't the only HC to see it that way. And yes, It was a BIG mistake to trade for McNabb. It's easy to criticize after the fact.

Given where this team is 20 games later, it looks like he was pretty much spot on with the issues he raised at the time.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by justinskins

What is this, Montel? I guess Shanahan should give a teary press conference in which he admits his mistakes and begs for more time. Then we can all talk about our feelings and hug it out.

I couldn't care less what Shanahan says, and neither should anyone else. What coaches say for public consumption, or even what they selectively leak to reporters off-the-record, is not important. All that matters is what Shanahan does.

There is debate about whether Shanahan's actions show that he is on the rebuilding track. For example, I think he finally is based on the last off-season. Others think he is still too much in "win now" mode (see CNY's post immediately above). That debate is legitimate and important.

What is not important is anything Shanahan has said or should say publicly. Even bringing it up is a waste of everyone's time.

My point was that the handling the McNabb debacle(and the subsequence rhetorical gymnastics along with questionable/inconsistent decisions) means that Shanahan has brought criticism/questioning upon himself. He could have made it a non-story if he chose, instead he's let the wound fester for months for no reason other then having to avoid admitting a mistake.

As for public statements, they do matter. This season, if the skins lost a close game whether or not completely attributable to a decision that the coaches made, all we hear publicly is how the skins are frustrated that the refs screwed them or that they think that they can beat anyone else in the league no matter what happened on the field or that they get no respect around the league. Then compare that to Mike Smith of Atlanta, who took a bad gamble against the Saints in Overtime. And post game, when asked about it, this is what he said: "It was something that I take full responsibility for. It is my decision and my decision solely." I guess Smith cares more about winning and less about the public perception of his team. Maybe Shanahan could learn something from that.

EDIT: to tie it all together my point is that the Skins under Shanahan, there's no accountability for anyone. Every negative is the media's(or someone else's) fault. And you can't build a winner if you're going to excuse failure at every turn. And thats why Shanny taking some responsibility matters. If he can't do it, no player will do it because its about image rather then results.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Originally Posted by CarMike

Against hR rules. Please don't post anything positive about Mike Shanahan. After only two years, it's time to replace yet ANOTHER HC so we can start all over again.

lmao Mike...lmao and just to be clear Im laughing at this statement because while I dont wear B&G colored glasses many are only willing to see the glass as half empty. Im not a Shanny apologist by any means but we cant start over every 2 years. So this isnt directed at anyone in particular, I just find that blind homerism and blind pessimism are equally funny.

[Red Bear]

Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan

and it isn't even about what they say publically, its about how they aquire their talent. If a team is rebuilding why do we resign a 30+ year old receiver (Moss), trade for another 30+ year old receiver (Gaffney) and sign another 30+ year old receiver (Stallworth) and give them significant minutes over 4 other wrs they drafted in the last two years.

(and before someone brings up Hankerson he got most of his playing time before hurt when Moss was hurt, it was not exactly a big coaching decision there)

Also why do we basically ignore Safety and the OL (and yes 7th round picks that are basically compensatory picks are ignoring) when our starters were shown to have injury issues?

couple these moves with the fact that we are staking our reputation on 30+ year old journeyman qbs and the FACT that the roster is not much younger overall then last year and our opening day starters were 4th in our own division in terms of age, you have to come to the conclusion Shanny was trying to win now. And if that is what he was doing, well then he failed. And we should hold him accountable for that.

so youre expecting shanny to have a significantly younger roster with only two drafts? this kind of stuff is exactly what i mean when i say people arent being patient enough. the same ones that complain about how the team and roster is built are the same ones wanting to fire the coach every 2 years. how the hell do you expect anyone to build a team if you never give them a fair chance to?

and maybe moss's stay here should come to an end. but how can you complain about gaffney after the solid season he just had? im with you on stallworth, he has to go, austin or paul shouldve got his playing time. you, i imagine, should be one of the first to admit that this team had/has a ton of holes on the roster. its gonna take more than two drafts, one of which we had little picks, to turn this team around and get significantly younger and more talented. one thing i will say about this coaching staff is that seems interested in developing young players that need work, and they have to practice well to play on sundays, players have to earn their time on the field. the best players on the roster will play. under past coaches, Mcintosh is still starting at ILB over Riley; Willie Smith is inactive while Sean Locklear struggles every week; instead of giving rookie Hurt a chance when lictenstiger went down we're negotiating to sign pete kendall out of retirement...

Originally Posted by justinskins

What is this, Montel? I guess Shanahan should give a teary press conference in which he admits his mistakes and begs for more time. Then we can all talk about our feelings and hug it out.

I couldn't care less what Shanahan says, and neither should anyone else. What coaches say for public consumption, or even what they selectively leak to reporters off-the-record, is not important. All that matters is what Shanahan does.

There is debate about whether Shanahan's actions show that he is on the rebuilding track. For example, I think he finally is based on the last off-season. Others think he is still too much in "win now" mode (see CNY's post immediately above). That debate is legitimate and important.

What is not important is anything Shanahan has said or should say publicly. Even bringing it up is a waste of everyone's time.

For real though, i think its pointless to criticize a coach for lying publicly to the media. Every coach does it for a variety of reasons and it should be expected.

[Arkangiest]

Originally Posted by NCskinsfanatic

lmao Mike...lmao and just to be clear Im laughing at this statement because while I dont wear B&G colored glasses many are only willing to see the glass as half empty. Im not a Shanny apologist by any means but we cant start over every 2 years. So this isnt directed at anyone in particular, I just find that blind homerism and blind pessimism are equally funny.

Hahaha. With the Redskins the glass is empty, then refilled very quickly and emptied once again, rinse and repeat every season. It would be nice to sip on a quality beer instead of chugging all of these awful light beers with no substance.

I side with the opinion that Shanny takes no responsibility for his pathetic decisions. If Jim Zorn was a natural light, Shanny is nothing better than rocky mountain "super cold" coors light. It won't be long before we see him in one of those commercials, smurf sized and everything.

[44 goes 50 gut]

All joking aside this would seem like a nice little advantage for a team with a lot of draft picks stock piled that desperately needs more depth and good young starters.

BTW Young (former LB now a very promising FB) and DE's Kerrigan/Orakpo seem to be very good conversions. It seems a little retarded to hold them up as examples of what not to do...

I had my doubts when they drafted Kerrigan to convert to OLB, thankfully the coaching staff seems to know more about the process of obtaining 3-4 line backers than I or most anyone else around here does.

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Arkangiest

Hahaha. With the Redskins the glass is empty, then refilled very quickly and emptied once again, rinse and repeat every season. It would be nice to sip on a quality beer instead of chugging all of these awful light beers with no substance.

I side with the opinion that Shanny takes no responsibility for his pathetic decisions. If Jim Zorn was a natural light, Shanny is nothing better than rocky mountain "super cold" coors light. It won't be long before we see him in one of those commercials, smurf sized and everything.

Shanny's more likely to go into the Buddy Ryan witness protection program lol.

[silverspring]

What luck, great opportunity for us. Does shanahan get to bring our entire staff or just himself?

[Arkangiest]

Originally Posted by 44 goes 50 gut

All joking aside this would seem like a nice little advantage for a team with a lot of draft picks stock piled that desperately needs more depth and good young starters.

BTW Young (former LB now a very promising FB) and DE's Kerrigan/Orakpo seem to be very good conversions. It seems a little retarded to hold them up as examples of what not to do...

I had my doubts when they drafted Kerrigan to convert to OLB, thankfully the coaching staff seems to know more about the process of obtaining 3-4 line backers than I or most anyone else around here does.

Agree, regardless of what happens I hope Shanny's coaching of the Senior Bowl allows him to spot some gems in the later rounds to keep this youth infusion up.

Kerrigan has been awesome, and the coaches ability to convert him have been impressive. But man I can't get over thinking about how much better the Skins D would be if they went back to the 4-3.

Originally Posted by akhhorus

Shanny's more likely to go into the Buddy Ryan witness protection program lol.

LOL! The Ryan family needs to finagle their way into the Raiders organization. Nepotism Superbowl 2013 Pryor vs Griffin!

[akhhorus]

Originally Posted by Arkangiest

LOL! The Ryan family needs to finagle their way into the Raiders organization. Nepotism Superbowl 2013 Pryor vs Griffin!

"Kyle, you need to take that job so you can try and salvage my legacy" lmao

[CNYSkinFan]

Originally Posted by Red Bear

so youre expecting shanny to have a significantly younger roster with only two drafts? this kind of stuff is exactly what i mean when i say people arent being patient enough. the same ones that complain about how the team and roster is built are the same ones wanting to fire the coach every 2 years. how the hell do you expect anyone to build a team if you never give them a fair chance to?

and maybe moss's stay here should come to an end. but how can you complain about gaffney after the solid season he just had? im with you on stallworth, he has to go, austin or paul shouldve got his playing time. you, i imagine, should be one of the first to admit that this team had/has a ton of holes on the roster. its gonna take more than two drafts, one of which we had little picks, to turn this team around and get significantly younger and more talented. one thing i will say about this coaching staff is that seems interested in developing young players that need work, and they have to practice well to play on sundays, players have to earn their time on the field. the best players on the roster will play. under past coaches, Mcintosh is still starting at ILB over Riley; Willie Smith is inactive while Sean Locklear struggles every week; instead of giving rookie Hurt a chance when lictenstiger went down we're negotiating to sign pete kendall out of retirement...




For real though, i think its pointless to criticize a coach for lying publicly to the media. Every coach does it for a variety of reasons and it should be expected.

I am expecting competency and something resembling a plan, neither of which we have seen. For example after the 2000 season Schotty inherited a mess of a roster. He sacrificed 2001 and went out and signed every UFDA he could find and cut a ton of dead over paid wood. He then went out and went 8-8 with some of the worst talent ever oin a Redskins uniform.


Shanny on the other hand looked at our 2010 roster and decided he was going to win with that roster. And we went 6-10. and instead of starting over this off season he did more of the band aid type of approach, and went 5-11.

And since your post speaks of irony I wonder fi you were defending Zorn at this point in his tenure? Afterall he fits the "don't change coaches every two years" model. and he had a better record then Shanny.

[flave1969]

Originally Posted by Red Bear

so youre expecting shanny to have a significantly younger roster with only two drafts? this kind of stuff is exactly what i mean when i say people arent being patient enough. the same ones that complain about how the team and roster is built are the same ones wanting to fire the coach every 2 years. how the hell do you expect anyone to build a team if you never give them a fair chance to?

Shanahan has admitted that he overestimated the talent level of this team. That means that the way he has approached the past two seasons was flawed. You can see that throughout the team in the way it was made up. the fanbase has every right to complain as a result. If you want to build a team you damn well better get the premise you build it on right from the get go. It is clear Shanahan went with a win now philosophy.

When are we going to get a coach that comes in and truly rebuilds this franchise. That is what it needs. It means taking the pain for the long term gain. This is not what is going on here. When you come in as Shanahan did and within weeks perpetuate the win now philosophy that has killed us year on year, why should he get a pass for this?

What is the point of drafting all these young guys if we are going to sign has been after has been, that then stop them getting on the field. I am watching the Giants right now beat Atlanta, Manningham, Nicks and Cruz all playing from the minute they arrived in town. I think Cooley is the only skill player I can name that has come in and started from Day One on Offense in years.

Originally Posted by Red Bear

and maybe moss's stay here should come to an end. but how can you complain about gaffney after the solid season he just had? im with you on stallworth, he has to go, austin or paul shouldve got his playing time. you, i imagine, should be one of the first to admit that this team had/has a ton of holes on the roster. its gonna take more than two drafts, one of which we had little picks, to turn this team around and get significantly younger and more talented. one thing i will say about this coaching staff is that seems interested in developing young players that need work, and they have to practice well to play on sundays, players have to earn their time on the field. the best players on the roster will play. under past coaches, Mcintosh is still starting at ILB over Riley; Willie Smith is inactive while Sean Locklear struggles every week; instead of giving rookie Hurt a chance when lictenstiger went down we're negotiating to sign pete kendall out of retirement...[

We should either have signed Moss or Gaffney, not both. The complaint is that we signed all of these guys, ageing guys, not just one. We should have realised the folly of such a plan by looking at what we did last season and how dire that was. If we had gone with Gaffney, Armstrong, Hankerson, Austin and Paul we would have learnt a hell of a lot more about the younger guys than we did this year. That whole group still has question marks going into next year.

As for the players you mentioned at the end.

I mean how many weeks of Rocky sucking did it take for him to get benched, eight. The fact we even began the season with him boggles the mind.

Willie Smith got onto the field with 3 games to go, he did sit inactive for 13 weeks behind Sean Locklear and only got called up because of Pot-head Williams being suspended.

The original Shanahan plan if you remember when Lichtensteiger went down was to weaken two positions on the line by moving Monty across to guard and starting Cook who was an utter disaster. It weakened two positions and forced a rethink. Hurt ended up playing for one reason because he was the only other guard we had on the roster, he had to play given that Plan A failed.

Outside of Riley the other cases you mentioned arose through circumstance not by players playing lights out and winning positions. You should be apoplectic that our line situation ended up so bad once again.

This is all about whether we believe Shanahan has a stuctured plan or not. I like some of the players drafted but the way they have been used has perplexed me. For instance In week two Roy Helu had 112 yards. He didn't get more than 8 touches in the next 5 games. He then had 146 combined yards against the Niners only to end up behind Torain again for two games.

I dont understand the logic. If Torain deserved to start why did we draft 2 RB's, trade for Hightower. Clearly he felt Torain was not the ultimate answer yet when it came to the crunch he made him the starter. It is symptomatic of the mixed messages that have come from Shanahan.

It is only from Shanahan's actions that I have built my distrust. I wanted a revolution when he came to this franchise. We have instead had a giant mish mash with no discernible plan.