Free Agency Open Thread Cont.

[BigCountry]

Originally Posted by guess88

Thanks. I would say Garcon is a bit of a gamble as a #1, but he's also young and coming into his own. Considering the production he had with 3 different QB's last year I'm excited to see what he does here. My belief is that he was groomed to be Reggie Wayne's replacement, which is good company to have and a great mentor if they had that relationship. From a purely physical standpoint 6', 210lbs, with 4.4 speed is nothing to scoff at.

In fact, just looking at size and speed, our WR corps has a lot of potential.

Garcon - 6' - 210lbs - 4.4

Morgan - 6' - 219lbs - 4.4

Hankerson - 6'2" - 209lbs - 4.4

Paul - 6'1" - 224lbs - 4.4

Moss - 5'9" - 205lbs - 4.3 (back in 2001, but maybe 4.4 now? He still has good speed)

Armstrong - 5'11" - 180lbs - 4.3

Don't forget that Griffin ran a 4.3 and Helu ran a 4.4. We have to be one of the fastest teams in the league now.

All that won't mean anything if they can't get open. Between the Packers, Giants, Patriots and Saints they don't have too many WR that ran anything faster than a 4.5, and one of those players (Meachem) isn't even there anymore.

[firehawk157]

Originally Posted by BigCountry

All that won't mean anything if they can't get open. Between the Packers, Giants, Patriots and Saints they don't have too many WR that ran anything faster than a 4.5, and one of those players (Meachem) isn't even there anymore.

The difference between the Packers, Giants, Patriots, Saints and the Redskins? Franchise QB. That's a lot of the reason teams like the Giants, Pats, Saints and Packers can kick over a rock and find a good WR while we can't find one to save our lives.

[cal_junior]

Originally Posted by firehawk157

The difference between the Packers, Giants, Patriots, Saints and the Redskins? Franchise QB. That's a lot of the reason teams like the Giants, Pats, Saints and Packers can kick over a rock and find a good WR while we can't find one to save our lives.

This. I'd love to see what kind of stats Gronkowski and Hernandez would end up with if they'd been drafted by the Dolphins.

[colkurtz]

When you look at the last 10 first round draft picks the Redskins have had - how much has anyone of them changed the team's record? My point is that we could have done nothing this year and drafted another SS to replace the last SS we took in the first round. Or pick another OT in case the last one we drafted in the first round fails another drug test.

At #6 we simply were not going to get in the top tier of QB. Then we'd either have to pick Tannehill and have everyone say we overspent for him (since he was predicted as a second round QB. Or we could pick a CB or SS or FS or OG and get some QB in the second or third round - which means another year of Grossman setting another INT record, before we see if this second tier QB was worth it..

At some point the Redskins were just going to have to trade up to get one of the top QB draft picks. This was the year to do it. I think that at this time next year we'll be excited and surprised how much that Redskins will have improved due to a big upgrade in one position. We will discover what the fans at N.E., Indy or even the Giants have known for a while. With a very good QB you're never out of the game. An excellent QB can take a 9-7 team and win the SB. Watching the Redskins is exciting again when you can have a QB score 30+ points in a couple of games. We can put teams away by the third quarter instead of playing every game supertight to the last second.

Every draft pick, INCLUDING Mr. Luck, is a gamble. But I'd rather see us take a gamble on a Heissman winner, who meets the 26//27/60 rule, who is mobile, who has the arm and touch to hit the long passes, then to keep kicking the can down the road by drafting every position except that of QB.

[firehawk157]

Originally Posted by colkurtz

At #6 we simply were not going to get in the top tier of QB. Then we'd either have to pick Tannehill and have everyone say we overspent for him (since he was predicted as a second round QB. Or we could pick a CB or SS or FS or OG and get some QB in the second or third round - which means another year of Grossman setting another INT record, before we see if this second tier QB was worth it..

This is probably one of the most important things to remember when evaluating the trade. For all our prolonged suckitude, we hardly ever get in the top-3. So in order to get a top flight QB, we'll have to trade up. We're lucky in that there are two QBs who would go first overall in many other drafts.

[jaylen]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

This. I'd love to see what kind of stats Gronkowski and Hernandez would end up with if they'd been drafted by the Dolphins.

Welker went from 67 catches with the Dolphins to 112 with the Patriots so I see your point.

[Mud-n-Cleats]

For the record fellas I hope he turns out to be all you believe him to be. Washington is in need of a QB who can take them to the next level and Griffin could very well be him.

I'm just of the opinion that the price paid for him is to high considering how few teams in the NFL are consistent winners without building their core through the draft.

The Steelers will be starting 21 out of 22 players that were drafted by Kevin Colbert and they are in the hunt for the AFC North every season, compared to a team like the Dolphins who will start only 11 that were drafted by Miami.

Its a big risk taking a player that nobody discussed being a franchise QB until this season and although Robert's intangibles are solid there are questions regarding what his transition will be into the NFL.

He's better than Tannehill or any of the other QBs not named Andrew Luck, but he is not in the same category as Luck either.

He's a project QB in the NFL and if he busts out the Redskins will be in a hole for a long time considering how little talent they will be able to acquire through the draft over the next 3 seasons.

[skinfanjon]

Originally Posted by Mud-n-Cleats

For the record fellas I hope he turns out to be all you believe him to be. Washington is in need of a QB who can take them to the next level and Griffin could very well be him.

I'm just of the opinion that the price paid for him is to high considering how few teams in the NFL are consistent winners without building their core through the draft.

The Steelers will be starting 21 out of 22 players that were drafted by Kevin Colbert and they are in the hunt for the AFC North every season, compared to a team like the Dolphins who will start only 11 that were drafted by Miami.

Its a big risk taking a player that nobody discussed being a franchise QB until this season and although Robert's intangibles are solid there are questions regarding what his transition will be into the NFL.

He's better than Tannehill or any of the other QBs not named Andrew Luck, but he is not in the same category as Luck either.

He's a project QB in the NFL and if he busts out the Redskins will be in a hole for a long time considering how little talent they will be able to acquire through the draft over the next 3 seasons.

The problem with the article wasn't the opinions you state here. They are just as reasonable as mine that say he'll be a superstar. The problem is you didn't accurately asses his traits as a quarterback. It's not the conclusion you arrived at that readers have a problem with, rather the route you took to arrive at that conclusion.

[hogs86]

PALM BEACH, Fla. -- John Mara, the owner of the New York Giants and the chairman of the NFL Management Committee, which imposed $46 million worth of salary-cap penalties on the Washington Redskins and the Dallas Cowboys for the way those teams structured contracts during the uncapped 2010 season, just walked through the lobby of The Breakers here on the day before the start of the NFL's annual meetings. Let's just say he's not having second thoughts.

"I thought the penalties imposed were proper," Mara said. "What they did was in violation of the spirit of the salary cap. They attempted to take advantage of a one-year loophole, and quite frankly, I think they're lucky they didn't lose draft picks."


Link http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post...-got-off-lucky

[hogs86]

Mara was the driving force in this. Maybe the giants should have their picks taken away from them.

[cal_junior]

The spirit of what salary cap, John?

[skinfanjon]

Originally Posted by cal_junior

The spirit of what salary cap, John?

Egg. Zactly.

[44 goes 50 gut]

*stairing at the train wreck of a thread*

[Mud-n-Cleats]

Originally Posted by skinfanjon

The problem with the article wasn't the opinions you state here. They are just as reasonable as mine that say he'll be a superstar. The problem is you didn't accurately asses his traits as a quarterback. It's not the conclusion you arrived at that readers have a problem with, rather the route you took to arrive at that conclusion.

I can understand you're argument, but you are looking at it (perhaps) in a different manner than I am.

Griffin did throw to a lot of open receivers, and dropping a ball over coverage that has been beat is a heck of a lot easier than throwing into traffic or side-lining a deep throw to a receiver that has good coverage on him (see Eli in the last SB).

He does have an early release point which will not help his accuracy at the next level when he will have to beat quality NFL DBs to the spot.

He does side arm a lot of shorter throws.

For the competition that he faced, he had receivers that were covered at most times in man so the ability of the DB is everything. How many DBs did he face that will be starters in the NFL? The rankings of the teams he played doesn't factor into the quality of defense they put on the field.

I still think his potential makes it hard (nearly impossible for some teams) for him to be passed on, but the Skins grossly overpaid IMO.

[SkinsGuru77]

Originally Posted by Mud-n-Cleats

For the record fellas I hope he turns out to be all you believe him to be. Washington is in need of a QB who can take them to the next level and Griffin could very well be him.

I'm just of the opinion that the price paid for him is to high considering how few teams in the NFL are consistent winners without building their core through the draft.

The Steelers will be starting 21 out of 22 players that were drafted by Kevin Colbert and they are in the hunt for the AFC North every season, compared to a team like the Dolphins who will start only 11 that were drafted by Miami.
Its a big risk taking a player that nobody discussed being a franchise QB until this season and although Robert's intangibles are solid there are questions regarding what his transition will be into the NFL.

He's better than Tannehill or any of the other QBs not named Andrew Luck, but he is not in the same category as Luck either.

He's a project QB in the NFL and if he busts out the Redskins will be in a hole for a long time considering how little talent they will be able to acquire through the draft over the next 3 seasons.

OK I am going to address the Bolded Points in order:

#1 While I agree with you that is the best possible way to build a team it is not the only way. Additionally how many of those Starters 21 out of 22 are first round picks? I would venture a guess that perhaps there are some second rounds in there or dare I say maybe someone in rounds 3-7? The point being that the Redskins still have picks in rounds 2-7 in 2013 and 2014 as wells as picks in rounds 3-7 in this years draft. They can still build thru the draft and they will need to do what the most successful teams do, Evaluate talent correctly in the later rounds and draft well and coach them up

#2 Since the combine, pro-day and tape evaluation most NFL scouts as wells as respected analysts do not share these concerns. The prevailing wisdom in the Media and NFL Circles are that he should transition better to the NFL than Cam Newton. I don’t think the Redskins, Browns or Miami Dolphins would agree with you on this point, seeing that the later 2 were trying desperately to move up to acquire RGIII.

#3 Really a Project QB!!! Seriously I would say that is where you lose alot of points with me.. Unless you are trying to say that every QB Drafted is a Project QB.. Thus rendering the argument mute. By all accounts both Media & NFL professional scouts this kid is not considered a project to work on. He is considered a top tallent and some have even argued that he should go #1 overall. I wouldn’t make that argument as Luck has the better pedigree but by no means would I remotely called RGIII a "Project".

Originally Posted by Mud-n-Cleats

I still think his potential makes it hard (nearly impossible for some teams) for him to be passed on, but the Skins grossly overpaid IMO.

I guess its how you classify overpaid for him. You had 3 Teams willing to move up to get him Redskins, Browns and Dolphins... The Browns & Mike Holmgren have even admitted they offered the same basic package but the redskins already beat them to it and secured the deal... There is a real possibility that this price could have gone even higher now that manning is out of the picture and there are several teams still desperate for a QB. Tannahill is being talked about at 4 for goodness sakes that should tell you all you need to know about the price for a QB in today's NFL. While it was a lot to give up the term "Grossly Overpaid" I feel is inaccurate. I think the Redskins paid what the NFL Market was for the pick of his value and potential.