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  #376  
Old 05-24-2012, 09:30 AM
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This makes much more sense. The court would be correct in not accepting a complete clean slate for management who is already getting a sweet deal in their anti-trust exemption from the government.
Dont get your hopes up. Doty dismissed all the claims, pending included. No sports law pundits I've read today knows what Kessler is talking about here.

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Originally Posted by shally View Post
www.profootballtalk.com has a little more on this subject this am

frankly, i think they are correct that the way this will end up eventually is with checks with lots of zeroes being passed back and forth in the future

i dont think this will make a damn bit of difference to the Redskins in the end

still, what Mara said for public consumption may end up hurting the NFL in the end.. Discovery would be a very difficult process for the NFL if the suit is allowed to go forward
If there was this supposed conspiracy, unless they put it to paper/communications, discovery won't be painful for the NFL. The PA, even if they get past the procedurial hurdles, still has to prove a conspiracy exists to have a chance of winning in court(nevermind on appeal).
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  #377  
Old 05-24-2012, 09:57 AM
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If there was this supposed conspiracy, unless they put it to paper/communications, discovery won't be painful for the NFL. The PA, even if they get past the procedurial hurdles, still has to prove a conspiracy exists to have a chance of winning in court(nevermind on appeal).
Their right to sue aside, I don't see how you can keep making the claim there wasn't a conspiracy. THEY PENALIZED TWO TEAMS FOR NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE CONSPIRACY. They can word it however they like but there was a clear and illegal salary cap during the "uncapped" year. They told the teams not to violate the non-existent cap and there would be consequences if they didn't COLLUDE. There were consequences. The ONLY reason the NFL doled out those penalties was because they thought or knew the players couldn't sue. They know the evidence is there to prove the claim. Everyone does.
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  #378  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:06 AM
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Their right to sue aside, I don't see how you can keep making the claim there wasn't a conspiracy. THEY PENALIZED TWO TEAMS FOR NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE CONSPIRACY. They can word it however they like but there was a clear and illegal salary cap during the "uncapped" year. They told the teams not to violate the non-existent cap and there would be consequences if they didn't COLLUDE. There were consequences. The ONLY reason the NFL doled out those penalties was because they thought or knew the players couldn't sue. They know the evidence is there to prove the claim. Everyone does.
All of this is unnecessary noise manufactured by the league, and now they have to stew in their own mess. Personally, I would like to see the sanctions against the Redskins & Cowboys dropped, the suspensions for the Saints reduced to fines (if evidence is irrefutable), and uphold the indefinite suspension of Gregg Williams. Make a round of concessions and get back to the business of playing ball. The league is coming off a tough season marked by the lockout, and it's time to move forward.

But I fear it's too late for that.
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  #379  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:35 AM
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Their right to sue aside, I don't see how you can keep making the claim there wasn't a conspiracy. THEY PENALIZED TWO TEAMS FOR NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE CONSPIRACY. They can word it however they like but there was a clear and illegal salary cap during the "uncapped" year. They told the teams not to violate the non-existent cap and there would be consequences if they didn't COLLUDE. There were consequences. The ONLY reason the NFL doled out those penalties was because they thought or knew the players couldn't sue. They know the evidence is there to prove the claim. Everyone does.
The problem with this is that 16 teams spent over the line which the NFLPA says was the agreed-upon conspiracy. And(for the 50th time) the skins and boys didn't try to spend more money in 2010. They tried to get out of cap charges in 2011 and 2012. Thats why this happened and thats why Mara said that they're lucky not to lose any draft picks: because forfeiting draft picks is the usual penalty for cap circumvention. And I bet that the league went for cap penalties rather then try to strip the skins of multiple 1st round picks.

The Redskins(and Boys) gambled that the cap would be gone for good. They lost that bet and didn't cut Haynesworth before they could have to avoid the penalty(or most of it). Its not any more complicated then that.

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All of this is unnecessary noise manufactured by the league, and now they have to stew in their own mess. Personally, I would like to see the sanctions against the Redskins & Cowboys dropped, the suspensions for the Saints reduced to fines (if evidence is irrefutable), and uphold the indefinite suspension of Gregg Williams. Make a round of concessions and get back to the business of playing ball. The league is coming off a tough season marked by the lockout, and it's time to move forward.

But I fear it's too late for that.
I realize that I might not get a real answer to this, but what does the Saints' bounty scandal have to do with anything?
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Last edited by akhhorus : 05-24-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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  #380  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:48 AM
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The problem with this is that 16 teams spent over the line which the NFLPA says was the agreed-upon conspiracy. And(for the 50th time) the skins and boys didn't try to spend more money in 2010. They tried to get out of cap charges in 2011 and 2012. Thats why this happened and thats why Mara said that they're lucky not to lose any draft picks: because forfeiting draft picks is the usual penalty for cap circumvention. And I bet that the league went for cap penalties rather then try to strip the skins of multiple 1st round picks.

The Redskins(and Boys) gambled that the cap would be gone for good. They lost that bet and didn't cut Haynesworth before they could have to avoid the penalty(or most of it). Its not any more complicated then that.



I realize that I might not get a real answer to this, but what does the Saints' bounty scandal have to do with anything?
I don't believe for one minute that the Skins and Boys thought the cap was gone for good.
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  #381  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:53 AM
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I realize that I might not get a real answer to this, but what does the Saints' bounty scandal have to do with anything?
The Bounty penalties and the cap issues are both very sensitive to the NFLPA. If concessions were made across the board, would that be better for all parties?
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  #382  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:54 AM
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The Bounty penalties and the cap issues are both very sensitive to the NFLPA. If concessions were made across the board, would that be better for all parties?
Too late for that now on both accounts, and I doubt that either side would want to drag the issues into each other.
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  #383  
Old 05-24-2012, 10:57 AM
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I don't believe for one minute that the Skins and Boys thought the cap was gone for good.
Exactly.
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  #384  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:07 AM
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another good point made at www.profootballtalk.com today

one side or the other's lawyers may have committed legal malpractice in drafting the final documents

plaintiffs dismiss all pending claims but NOT any future claims that are later discovered or happen after the settlement

defendants want the slate wiped completely clean but it is unusual for all future claims that are later discovered to be extinguished.. if this holds (and i have read conflicting accounts of whether Doty would even permit such a future claim language as being proper) then the clowns at the PA were totally hosed by the NFL and leadership and their lawyers are going to get hammered by the players
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  #385  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post

If there was this supposed conspiracy, unless they put it to paper/communications, discovery won't be painful for the NFL. The PA, even if they get past the procedurial hurdles, still has to prove a conspiracy exists to have a chance of winning in court(nevermind on appeal).
They've stipulated that they issued warnings to the teams that were penalized. There is no need to prove something that the other party admits to doing.

The issue is the procedural hurdles, especially in light of the information that the Federal Court rejected any waiver of future claims and used the word "pending" in the order of ratification.
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #386  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:49 AM
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They've stipulated that they issued warnings to the teams that were penalized. There is no need to prove something that the other party admits to doing.
Thats not evidence of collusion. Thats evidence of the league not wanting teams to try and circumvent the cap via the uncapped year. Thats still not collusion. Primarily because the move that the skins did has nothing to do with spending more in salaries for the sake of doing it.

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The issue is the procedural hurdles, especially in light of the information that the Federal Court rejected any waiver of future claims and used the word "pending" in the order of ratification.
And proof. The PA has no proof unless the "conspiracy" existed and they were dumb enough to put it down into paper.
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  #387  
Old 05-24-2012, 11:50 AM
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I don't believe for one minute that the Skins and Boys thought the cap was gone for good.
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Exactly.
Its that, the skins/boys thought that the league didn't have the balls to sanction them or they flat screwed up. Take your choice.
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  #388  
Old 05-24-2012, 12:05 PM
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Thats not evidence of collusion. Thats evidence of the league not wanting teams to try and circumvent the cap via the uncapped year. Thats still not collusion. Primarily because the move that the skins did has nothing to do with spending more in salaries for the sake of doing it.
Interesting, because everything I've read says that 2010 was uncapped and the 2011 CBA establishes the new cap, ergo, there was nothing to circumvent. Moreover, the Skins and Boys' actions were specifically permitted under the 2006 CBA, so instructing teams to act in contravention to the written rules of the league is collusion based on my understanding of the term.


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And proof. The PA has no proof unless the "conspiracy" existed and they were dumb enough to put it down into paper.
As indicated above, the league admitted it, so the burden of proof is all but gone when the other party stipulates to the fact.

Want to just call the impasse now? We aren't going to agree here.
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #389  
Old 05-24-2012, 12:12 PM
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Want to just call the impasse now? We aren't going to agree here.
Fine with me. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to a bunch of Fox Mulders lol.
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Last edited by akhhorus : 05-24-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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  #390  
Old 05-24-2012, 12:35 PM
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Fine with me. I'm getting tired of repeating myself to a bunch of Fox Mulders lol.
You misspelled "fact mavens".
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