Go Back   hailRedskins.com Fan Board > hailRedskins.com Fan Forums > the Cherokee Redskins Tribe

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

  #91  
Old 05-09-2012, 07:16 AM
Keino's Avatar
Keino Keino is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorimike View Post
We can't fix what was lost in our cap and possible payers we could have aquired this season so they should give us a pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds as compensation.
The difference between should and will. I will take the restoration of the $36 million. Can't cry over spilled Vincent Jacksons...I mean Milk. I'll take the $36 million in room for next season.

Frankly, I'd like to see the teams that led this charge (GIANTS) punished for their malfeasance.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
Reply With Quote

  #92  
Old 05-09-2012, 07:33 AM
akhhorus's Avatar
akhhorus akhhorus is offline
hR Staff Writer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Monty Burns County
Posts: 61,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinsDave View Post
It will be very interesting to see the relief if we win. I just don't see draft picks as an option. Cap space would affect the other teams less than throwing in an extra pick or two for the Redskins.
If the skins win(which I still doubt they will), all they can get is the cap room restored after the appeals process. There's no way that they'll get draft picks. They could lose draft picks if Burbank rules that the punishment was wrong but the skins did circumvent the cap.
__________________
Thanks for everything Johnny White Guy.

Last edited by akhhorus : 05-09-2012 at 07:39 AM.
Reply With Quote

  #93  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:00 AM
Red Bear Red Bear is offline
Ghost Dancer
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 3,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
If the skins win(which I still doubt they will), all they can get is the cap room restored after the appeals process. There's no way that they'll get draft picks. They could lose draft picks if Burbank rules that the punishment was wrong but the skins did circumvent the cap.
I mentioned this some time ago and it was just shrugged off or ignored by some. at the time saying i hoped the process took place after the draft so we didnt lose the RG3 pick. That if the skins win and get their cap space back under the basis that the league was not allowed to alter our cap under the CBA, they could in turn take draft picks instead. I also dont think we will get any extra draft picks as part of a settlement, the league just doesnt do that as far as i know.

Also, i strongly believe that if we(and cowboys) win, and get back our cap space, that the teams who benefitted from that money being split up amongst them should have that amount of cap space taken back away from them. The union will have to accept that the cap dropped, they made a bad deal, and that re-electing De Smith was a huge mistake....
Reply With Quote

  #94  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:09 AM
culpeper's Avatar
culpeper culpeper is offline
Sentinel
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Culpeper Virginia
Posts: 1,848
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bear View Post
I mentioned this some time ago and it was just shrugged off or ignored by some. at the time saying i hoped the process took place after the draft so we didnt lose the RG3 pick. That if the skins win and get their cap space back under the basis that the league was not allowed to alter our cap under the CBA, they could in turn take draft picks instead. I also dont think we will get any extra draft picks as part of a settlement, the league just doesnt do that as far as i know.

Also, i strongly believe that if we(and cowboys) win, and get back our cap space, that the teams who benefitted from that money being split up amongst them should have that amount of cap space taken back away from them. The union will have to accept that the cap dropped, they made a bad deal, and that re-electing De Smith was a huge mistake....
I agree with you, but what is right, and what will happen are often two totally different things.

IMO if we only get next years $18M restored, we still got penalized for nothing (Giants win). But sometimes you have to cut your losses too. Pushing this too far could turn back around on us somewhere down the line.
__________________
21 RIP 11/27/07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3WkxB3UxRw

Reply With Quote

  #95  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:16 AM
bergiemoore's Avatar
bergiemoore bergiemoore is offline
Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 2,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culpeper View Post
I agree with you, but what is right, and what will happen are often two totally different things.

IMO if we only get next years $18M restored, we still got penalized for nothing (Giants win). But sometimes you have to cut your losses too. Pushing this too far could turn back around on us somewhere down the line.
That "somewhere down the line" is going to be the next CBA negotiations, when the NFLPA is able to point back to this incident as evidence of collusion. So far, I believe the Skins and Cowboys have kept their complaint limited to the league's authority to alter the cap, but if this goes beyond arbitration and into court, there's a real concern that the collusion would be brought out front and center, making it available for the NFLPA to use in the 2020 negotiations.
__________________
"It is all about attitude. I can't say why or how but it is all about attitude. We go out and do our jobs, and once you go out and do it once, you get excited so you go out and do it twice."
--Darrell Green
Reply With Quote

  #96  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:41 AM
culpeper's Avatar
culpeper culpeper is offline
Sentinel
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Culpeper Virginia
Posts: 1,848
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bergiemoore View Post
That "somewhere down the line" is going to be the next CBA negotiations, when the NFLPA is able to point back to this incident as evidence of collusion. So far, I believe the Skins and Cowboys have kept their complaint limited to the league's authority to alter the cap, but if this goes beyond arbitration and into court, there's a real concern that the collusion would be brought out front and center, making it available for the NFLPA to use in the 2020 negotiations.
Right, so how far do you really push this? If you push hard for "whats right", you're bringing down the house on the entire NFL (and yourselves). But you have to call the NFL's bluff here in order to get change.

Itll be a game of cat and mouse in order to corner the other side (behind closed doors). Hopefully next years cap is restored and we move on outside of court.
__________________
21 RIP 11/27/07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3WkxB3UxRw

Reply With Quote

  #97  
Old 05-09-2012, 08:54 AM
flave1969's Avatar
flave1969 flave1969 is offline
hR Staff Writer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,429
Default

I will be surprised if we win anything out of this. It looks like the NFL will be arguing technicalities in a bid to throw this out. If this is their tack I think it speaks volumes about the decisions made by the NFL.

I think it is clear that the NFL is moving to a position where it thinks it can do whatever the hell it likes. Like most bullies I have a feeling they will pay the price in the end.
__________________
D.C the place where QB's go to die.
Reply With Quote

  #98  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:08 AM
AustinSkin's Avatar
AustinSkin AustinSkin is offline
Ghost Dancer
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Austin, TX - Live Music Capitol of the World
Posts: 3,779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culpeper View Post
Right, so how far do you really push this? If you push hard for "whats right", you're bringing down the house on the entire NFL (and yourselves). But you have to call the NFL's bluff here in order to get change.

Itll be a game of cat and mouse in order to corner the other side (behind closed doors). Hopefully next years cap is restored and we move on outside of court.
Settle this and move on. Get as much of your cap back as possible. The more antagonistic we are as a franchise, the more the cartel can mess with you. Or Snyder could be Al Davis II and sue the league every time he feels wronged. If you do that, you are in no position to ask for favors.
__________________
"Don't cry to me, cry to your MOMMA!" - Alfred Morris, on being a role model
Reply With Quote

  #99  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:33 AM
bergiemoore's Avatar
bergiemoore bergiemoore is offline
Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 2,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by culpeper View Post
Right, so how far do you really push this? If you push hard for "whats right", you're bringing down the house on the entire NFL (and yourselves). But you have to call the NFL's bluff here in order to get change.

Itll be a game of cat and mouse in order to corner the other side (behind closed doors). Hopefully next years cap is restored and we move on outside of court.
My guess is that they'll stop after arbitration, regardless of the outcome. From my non-expert understanding, the arbitration proceedings will remain sealed, and unusable by the NFLPA. Court proceedings, on the other hand, may not be out of reach.

The NFL is arguing right now that the Skins and Cowboys have no standing to bring a claim, since all parties involved, i.e. the NFL and NFLPA, agreed to the cap adjustment. This is what is being decided, today. If the arbitration makes it past this, I feel like the Skins and Cowboys will get something back. However, I wouldn't bet on the claim getting past today.
__________________
"It is all about attitude. I can't say why or how but it is all about attitude. We go out and do our jobs, and once you go out and do it once, you get excited so you go out and do it twice."
--Darrell Green
Reply With Quote

  #100  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:40 AM
Keino's Avatar
Keino Keino is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bergiemoore View Post
My guess is that they'll stop after arbitration, regardless of the outcome. From my non-expert understanding, the arbitration proceedings will remain sealed, and unusable by the NFLPA. Court proceedings, on the other hand, may not be out of reach.

The NFL is arguing right now that the Skins and Cowboys have no standing to bring a claim, since all parties involved, i.e. the NFL and NFLPA, agreed to the cap adjustment. This is what is being decided, today. If the arbitration makes it past this, I feel like the Skins and Cowboys will get something back. However, I wouldn't bet on the claim getting past today.
It seems to me, for the NFL to win today on the standing issue, the Arbitrator is going to have say that the parties (NFL and NFLPA) have the authority to modify the CBA after its expiration. It was the old CBA that governed the uncapped year, not the current CBA under which the NFL is asserting this authority.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
Reply With Quote

  #101  
Old 05-09-2012, 09:59 AM
akhhorus's Avatar
akhhorus akhhorus is offline
hR Staff Writer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Monty Burns County
Posts: 61,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bear View Post
I mentioned this some time ago and it was just shrugged off or ignored by some. at the time saying i hoped the process took place after the draft so we didnt lose the RG3 pick. That if the skins win and get their cap space back under the basis that the league was not allowed to alter our cap under the CBA, they could in turn take draft picks instead. I also dont think we will get any extra draft picks as part of a settlement, the league just doesnt do that as far as i know.
Thats why I think that the skins shouldn't have challenged this. 36 million in cap circumvention penalties+the RG3 trade *could* mean that the skins aren't picking the in the first round for 6 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keino View Post
It seems to me, for the NFL to win today on the standing issue, the Arbitrator is going to have say that the parties (NFL and NFLPA) have the authority to modify the CBA after its expiration. It was the old CBA that governed the uncapped year, not the current CBA under which the NFL is asserting this authority.
I think that the NFL wins that argument, especially since that they and the Union agreed on a modification of the CBA to include this retroactive penalty specifically.
__________________
Thanks for everything Johnny White Guy.
Reply With Quote

  #102  
Old 05-09-2012, 10:04 AM
Keino's Avatar
Keino Keino is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
I think that the NFL wins that argument, especially since that they and the Union agreed on a modification of the CBA to include this retroactive penalty specifically.
I've never heard of anyone being able to amend an expired agreement with an enforceable provision. The new agreement would have to stand on its own and the the uncapped year was wholly governed by the previous CBA. I don't see how the NFL gets around that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
Reply With Quote

  #103  
Old 05-09-2012, 10:12 AM
akhhorus's Avatar
akhhorus akhhorus is offline
hR Staff Writer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Monty Burns County
Posts: 61,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keino View Post
I've never heard of anyone being able to amend an expired agreement with an enforceable provision. The new agreement would have to stand on its own and the the uncapped year was wholly governed by the previous CBA. I don't see how the NFL gets around that.
1-I would guess that they gave both the Boys and Skins a chance to retroactively change the restructures in 2010 from base salary to signing bonus(which in retrospect the skins should have done).

2-The NFL will say that the Boys and Skins actively tried to circumvent the cap in 2011 and 2012 with the moves(and were warned prior to the uncapped year that this was on the table). If the new CBA didn't have a cap in '11/12, then there would be nothing to penalize.
__________________
Thanks for everything Johnny White Guy.
Reply With Quote

  #104  
Old 05-09-2012, 10:22 AM
Keino's Avatar
Keino Keino is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
1-I would guess that they gave both the Boys and Skins a chance to retroactively change the restructures in 2010 from base salary to signing bonus(which in retrospect the skins should have done).

2-The NFL will say that the Boys and Skins actively tried to circumvent the cap in 2011 and 2012 with the moves(and were warned prior to the uncapped year that this was on the table). If the new CBA didn't have a cap in '11/12, then there would be nothing to penalize.
You cannot circumvent what does not exist. At the time, the old CBA provided for an uncapped final year and then it expired. The new CBA created the 11/12 cap, not the old one. There was no cap in-place to circumvent and the NFL cannot add a cap provision or penalty to the expired CBA. Given the timing of it all, I highly doubt the NFL gave any chances to reconcile the so-called "circumventions". You think Jerry Jones wouldn't have jumped all over that opportunity?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
Reply With Quote

  #105  
Old 05-09-2012, 11:09 AM
Red Bear Red Bear is offline
Ghost Dancer
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 3,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
1-I would guess that they gave both the Boys and Skins a chance to retroactively change the restructures in 2010 from base salary to signing bonus(which in retrospect the skins should have done).

2-The NFL will say that the Boys and Skins actively tried to circumvent the cap in 2011 and 2012 with the moves(and were warned prior to the uncapped year that this was on the table). If the new CBA didn't have a cap in '11/12, then there would be nothing to penalize.
1 is very very doubtful. neither team knew of the coming punishments until it happened. and jerry jones is a member of the management council that pushed for these punishments(behind his back at that).

as for 2 there was no cap to circumvent at the time, present of future.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 AM.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
| Home | Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search | New Posts |