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  #31  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:09 AM
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actually that has been (another) complaint of mine though, is Shanny (and zorn and gibbs before him so it may be a FO problem) seem to go into training camp with one kicker. I actually thinkl all the kicking and punting in ntc and pre season leads to dead leg at the end of a season. HAving two kickers and punters going into the first round of cuts just makes sense to me. It also allows you to audition a backup in case someone gets hurt.
+1

totally agree with you..
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2012, 11:10 AM
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actually that has been (another) complaint of mine though, is Shanny (and zorn and gibbs before him so it may be a FO problem) seem to go into training camp with one kicker. I actually thinkl all the kicking and punting in ntc and pre season leads to dead leg at the end of a season. HAving two kickers and punters going into the first round of cuts just makes sense to me. It also allows you to audition a backup in case someone gets hurt.
While i agree its good to have two punters and two kickers in the offseason, there was a reason not to in the past, and this applies league wide not just to us. and thats the increased roster limit to 90 this year up from 80 in years past. its a little easier to do now and not cut yourself short somewhere else...
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  #33  
Old 04-25-2012, 11:15 AM
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While i agree its good to have two punters and two kickers in the offseason, there was a reason not to in the past, and this applies league wide not just to us. and thats the increased roster limit to 90 this year up from 80 in years past. its a little easier to do now and not cut yourself short somewhere else...
I don't know about that. You are talking the 79th and 80th spots that will need to be cut down to 53 + 5 who clear waivers. What would having those 79th and 80th spots really mean? That we couldn't bring in 2 guys who had no shot to make the roster anyways. I don't buy that as the reason. I think in some years the reason was they felt good about what they had at the position. You may recall last year, that Gano had some competition from some rookie who was a scrub that was released early into camp. It will be nice to see him against real competition. Rackers is definitely in the top half of the Kickers in the league.
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #34  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:24 PM
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I don't know about that. You are talking the 79th and 80th spots that will need to be cut down to 53 + 5 who clear waivers. What would having those 79th and 80th spots really mean? That we couldn't bring in 2 guys who had no shot to make the roster anyways. I don't buy that as the reason. I think in some years the reason was they felt good about what they had at the position. You may recall last year, that Gano had some competition from some rookie who was a scrub that was released early into camp. It will be nice to see him against real competition. Rackers is definitely in the top half of the Kickers in the league.
did you account for injuries? and the fact that the starters play very little, so you need more bodies in the preseason, especially weeks 1 and 4 of the preseason. week 4 virtually no starters will play, if they do probably not more than a series. its about having bodies more than it is if that body will make the team. you dont want to run out of scrubs at a position and have to reinsert a starter or one of your better backups just to finish out a week 4 preseason game because of injuries, yet have two kickers and punters standing around. these 10 roster spots extra will provide teams a lot more flexibility. i think cuts go from 90 to 80, then 80 to 53. thats a lot more bodies available for week 4 preseason than in the past...
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  #35  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:27 PM
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did you account for injuries? and the fact that the starters play very little, so you need more bodies in the preseason, especially weeks 1 and 4 of the preseason. week 4 virtually no starters will play, if they do probably not more than a series. its about having bodies more than it is if that body will make the team. you dont want to run out of scrubs at a position and have to reinsert a starter or one of your better backups just to finish out a week 4 preseason game because of injuries, yet have two kickers and punters standing around. these 10 roster spots extra will provide teams a lot more flexibility. i think cuts go from 90 to 80, then 80 to 53. thats a lot more bodies available for week 4 preseason than in the past...
the problem is most other teams at least started tc with two at each position. That is the norm around the NFL, and was gospel until a few years ago. Another change in the way the NFL is handling roster spots is only keeping 2 qbs in the reg season which I think is a disaster waiting to happen.
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  #36  
Old 04-25-2012, 12:39 PM
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did you account for injuries? and the fact that the starters play very little, so you need more bodies in the preseason, especially weeks 1 and 4 of the preseason. week 4 virtually no starters will play, if they do probably not more than a series. its about having bodies more than it is if that body will make the team. you dont want to run out of scrubs at a position and have to reinsert a starter or one of your better backups just to finish out a week 4 preseason game because of injuries, yet have two kickers and punters standing around. these 10 roster spots extra will provide teams a lot more flexibility. i think cuts go from 90 to 80, then 80 to 53. thats a lot more bodies available for week 4 preseason than in the past...
Oh I don't disagree that teams will have added flexibility with the 10 extra spots, I just don't buy that roster space was the reason that the Skins didn't carry two Kickers or two punters in pre-season, in years when the positions were unsettled. As I indicated above, we entered camp last year with 2 Kickers and when it was apparent that the "competition" for Gano stunk out loud, the 2nd Kicker was released. I just don't buy that the team needs to look at a 7th OLB, 10th WR or 6th S at the 79th and 80th spots rather than an extra K and P, when those positions were areas of defeciency in the prior year.

I don't think Bruce was saying to himself "man, if we only had 10 extra roster spots, we would be able to bring in some competition for these bums we have as specialists.
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #37  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan View Post
actually that has been (another) complaint of mine though, is Shanny (and zorn and gibbs before him so it may be a FO problem) seem to go into training camp with one kicker. I actually thinkl all the kicking and punting in ntc and pre season leads to dead leg at the end of a season. HAving two kickers and punters going into the first round of cuts just makes sense to me. It also allows you to audition a backup in case someone gets hurt.
I"m all for competition, especially for kickers since they're typically mercurial to beging with and largely unpredictable, but the concept of a professional kicker getting a dead leg (injury notwithstanding) is nonsense.
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  #38  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:34 PM
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Gano had 32 TB's compared to Rackers 15. It is interesting to note that the return average was still in Rackers favour. Says a lot about our coverage.
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  #39  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:40 PM
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Gano had 32 TB's compared to Rackers 15. It is interesting to note that the return average was still in Rackers favour. Says a lot about our coverage.
Gano clearly has the stronger leg now.. But that is worth less now with the rules on kickoffs.. i thought that what Gano did do well was kick into the corner without kicking out of bounds.. he was very good at pinning the returner against the sideline most of the time he tried
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:41 PM
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I"m all for competition, especially for kickers since they're typically mercurial to beging with and largely unpredictable, but the concept of a professional kicker getting a dead leg (injury notwithstanding) is nonsense.
i submit to you page 2 of the AFCA technical manual. At the bottom of the first page of the article it talks specifically about over use of the kicker in practice in fall sessions. There are numerous articles out there about fatigue late in season being due to over kicking early in the season.

And logically it makes sense. In training camp special teams practice and development is of priority when it comes to judging a roster. All the kicks a kicker must make during the training session can over work one set of K & P. Fatigue leads to injury and by the end of the season every football player feels a drag on them. Its a long tough season and kickers and punters are using some of the same muscles over and over and over again.
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  #41  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by flave1969 View Post
Gano had 32 TB's compared to Rackers 15. It is interesting to note that the return average was still in Rackers favour. Says a lot about our coverage.
I noticed last year some STs were instructing their kickers to kick higher with longer hangtime to try and get better field position then the 20 yard line a tb gives, another way of gaining advantage.
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  #42  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:45 PM
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I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Gano. But I certainly like the idea of competition in camp. As stated previously on this thread, some of his misses were poor blocking and mis-handled snaps.

The key is to build an explosive offense that gets into the red zone on every possession. It won't matter if there is an occasional miss if you have a commanding lead over your opponent.

I want Sav Rocca to be lonelier than the Maytag repair man.
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  #43  
Old 04-25-2012, 01:57 PM
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I'm all for it. Gano's been lingering around for too long anyway. Rackers being 50% from 40-49 is a little concerning though, especially since he kicked 8 of his games in a dome.
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  #44  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:14 PM
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There will be competition at every position.
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  #45  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:18 PM
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Oh I don't disagree that teams will have added flexibility with the 10 extra spots, I just don't buy that roster space was the reason that the Skins didn't carry two Kickers or two punters in pre-season, in years when the positions were unsettled. As I indicated above, we entered camp last year with 2 Kickers and when it was apparent that the "competition" for Gano stunk out loud, the 2nd Kicker was released. I just don't buy that the team needs to look at a 7th OLB, 10th WR or 6th S at the 79th and 80th spots rather than an extra K and P, when those positions were areas of defeciency in the prior year.

I don't think Bruce was saying to himself "man, if we only had 10 extra roster spots, we would be able to bring in some competition for these bums we have as specialists.
ive heard shanahan say as much. in his first year here i believe...
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