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  #46  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Bear View Post
ive heard shanahan say as much. in his first year here i believe...
But if the roster thing were the reason, he doesn't bring a 2nd Kicker to camp last year, no?
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Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2012, 02:48 PM
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Good point. It's entirely possible this has more to do with Gano's health than any other factor.
I think if Gano's back was bad, he would have signed his tender by now to make sure he got paid this year. His not signing it tells me that his back is probably okay.

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Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan;[QUOTE=AustinSkin View Post
I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Gano. But I certainly like the idea of competition in camp. As stated previously on this thread, some of his misses were poor blocking and mis-handled snaps.

The key is to build an explosive offense that gets into the red zone on every possession. It won't matter if there is an occasional miss if you have a commanding lead over your opponent.

I want Sav Rocca to be lonelier than the Maytag repair man.
Rex did his best to keep Rocca lonely by throwing all those interceptions and losing all of those fumbles.
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:03 PM
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Gano and Rcker will compete in Camp.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...GhT_story.html
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  #49  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:20 PM
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But if the roster thing were the reason, he doesn't bring a 2nd Kicker to camp last year, no?
but they went with only one punter...
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  #50  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:37 PM
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i submit to you page 2 of the AFCA technical manual. At the bottom of the first page of the article it talks specifically about over use of the kicker in practice in fall sessions. There are numerous articles out there about fatigue late in season being due to over kicking early in the season.
Overuse being the key word there. NFL coaches, training staffs and the kickers themselves have more experience and collective knowlegde of reasonable limits than what Feeley is making obvious. His level of instruction is aimed lower than what we're discussing.

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And logically it makes sense. In training camp special teams practice and development is of priority when it comes to judging a roster. All the kicks a kicker must make during the training session can over work one set of K & P. Fatigue leads to injury and by the end of the season every football player feels a drag on them. Its a long tough season and kickers and punters are using some of the same muscles over and over and over again.
Juggs machines play a part in this and it's not uncommon to see the coaches themselves sometimes taking reps for the sole purpose of preventing overuse. Jay Feeley is even quoted that a kicker's stamina and strength should increase as the season progresses if not over-used, which also logically makes sense.

If a kicker is dealing with a dead leg then he's an idiot and his coaches should be fired. Entire soccer leagues are populated with players, goalies in particular, that put far more activity on their legs in any given game, twice a week, plus practice over a longe season and it's not a problem.
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  #51  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:40 PM
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I noticed last year some STs were instructing their kickers to kick higher with longer hangtime to try and get better field position then the 20 yard line a tb gives, another way of gaining advantage.
I noticed this too. I've always wondered why coaches didn't instruct more low, hard kicks that bounce around. They might be more unpredictabe for the coverage teams but the same holds true for the blockers and most returners don't handle a bouncing football well.
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  #52  
Old 04-25-2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe View Post
I noticed this too. I've always wondered why coaches didn't instruct more low, hard kicks that bounce around. They might be more unpredictabe for the coverage teams but the same holds true for the blockers and most returners don't handle a bouncing football well.
i would imagine there it is a case of the ball not going far enough, those squib lkicks routinely yield starting position around the 35 yard line as opposed to 20
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  #53  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:11 PM
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but they went with only one punter...
I think the position was quite settled, don't you? They signed Rocca in F/A. That really has nothing to do with my point which is: I just don't buy that the team needs to look at a 7th OLB, 10th WR or 6th S at the 79th and 80th spots rather than an extra K and P, when those positions were areas of defeciency in the prior year. The more likely thinking wasn't "we need those 79th or 80th roster spots" but rather "Nothing in the market represents anything but a lateral move or possibly a downgrade". I am not saying it isn't a consideration only that it isn't THE reason.
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Originally Posted by SkinsSwag2 View Post
Long will never start for us and neither will the kid from stanford. We fot fleecsd .....moses wont start either there is a reason he fell so far. Sosorry this draft has disaster written all over it
Just so I don't forget, I intend to remind the above poster about this quote.
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  #54  
Old 04-25-2012, 10:20 PM
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this signing could be almost as good as rocca. rackers is very reliable,he may be 36 but kickers can kick for a while(kasay,hanson,andersons etc)
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  #55  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe View Post
Overuse being the key word there. NFL coaches, training staffs and the kickers themselves have more experience and collective knowlegde of reasonable limits than what Feeley is making obvious. His level of instruction is aimed lower than what we're discussing.



Juggs machines play a part in this and it's not uncommon to see the coaches themselves sometimes taking reps for the sole purpose of preventing overuse. Jay Feeley is even quoted that a kicker's stamina and strength should increase as the season progresses if not over-used, which also logically makes sense.

If a kicker is dealing with a dead leg then he's an idiot and his coaches should be fired. Entire soccer leagues are populated with players, goalies in particular, that put far more activity on their legs in any given game, twice a week, plus practice over a longe season and it's not a problem.
Fatigue...? From kicking a ball...? Got to agree with Moe here - it's absolute (excuse my French here...) bollocks.

Can't ever remember Jonny Wilkinson (ex-England rugby player) complaining of a dead-leg from over-use - and he used to put hours of practice in a season twice as long as an NFL one.

From personal experience (at one point, I was playing for three teams in the same season for about 5 years back in the day) and if anything, the famous GD left-peg got stronger as the season wore on...
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  #56  
Old 04-26-2012, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneralDisorder View Post
Fatigue...? From kicking a ball...? Got to agree with Moe here - it's absolute (excuse my French here...) bollocks.

Can't ever remember Jonny Wilkinson (ex-England rugby player) complaining of a dead-leg from over-use - and he used to put hours of practice in a season twice as long as an NFL one.

From personal experience (at one point, I was playing for three teams in the same season for about 5 years back in the day) and if anything, the famous GD left-peg got stronger as the season wore on...
pitchers get "dead arms" in baseball.. it is a well known condition
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  #57  
Old 04-26-2012, 07:53 AM
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pitchers get "dead arms" in baseball.. it is a well known condition
They is soft then.



I would put that down to the slingy action of pitching the ball. We have bowlers in cricket that send down more deliveries over 4-5 consecutive days. It is a smoother action and consequently dead-arms are exceedingly rare.

Still stand by my comments on kickers though. If they suffer from dead legs without being hit, it's not from over-use, it's more likely that they aren't warming up properly.
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  #58  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:34 AM
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everything wears out,even body parts.it's a wonder that there is not some sort of tommy john surgery for pro football palyers,only on their legs instead of arms.
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  #59  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by BIGREDSKINSFAN1963 View Post
everything wears out,even body parts.it's a wonder that there is not some sort of tommy john surgery for pro football palyers,only on their legs instead of arms.
there is for people who blow out their ACL/PCL complexes.. also, we are now seeing much more Hip Labral surgery so the science is evolving
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  #60  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:10 AM
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pitchers get "dead arms" in baseball.. it is a well known condition
Pitching applies excessive force in an unnatural motion to a set of muscles and joints ill equipped to handle it. Not to mention we're talking about hundreds of reps. Kicking uses the largest muscles in the body and they only exert, maybe 10 times in a busy game.
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