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  #31  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:11 AM
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I've got 3 words for everybody:

And

So

What

He didn't hurt anybody, he didn't rape anybody, he didn't even rob anyone. He got caught using his car when he shouldn't have. You guys here about Ryan Leaf? Moving on...
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  #32  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by natgbz View Post
I've got 3 words for everybody:

And

So

What

He didn't hurt anybody, he didn't rape anybody, he didn't even rob anyone. He got caught using his car when he shouldn't have. You guys here about Ryan Leaf? Moving on...
Unfortunately, the league doesn't see things your way.
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  #33  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:17 AM
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Is there a test for douchebagery?
Q: "Are you a fan of the Eagles, Phillies, 76ers or Flyers?"
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  #34  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Keino View Post
I strongly disagree with this. Cutting people prior to the disposition of their cases is a prematurely overreactive play right out of Goodell's playbook. Chances are he is guilty, but we don't know that for sure at the moment (although the mug shot doesn't look good at all). We signed him, may as well let him compete and see what value he brings to the team on the field.
The standard for a criminal conviction is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is almost like a 99% standard. The standard for an employment conviction (i.e., termination) is completely up to the employer. If the employer believes that the guy is guilty, or that the arrest reflects badly on his organization, he can fire the guy whether the guy gets convicted or not.

Normally, I would agree with your post. Just because a guy is charged with a crime does not mean he is guilty or is going to be found guilty (which is not the same thing). It is not fair to the arrestee if he is punished by his employer based on a mere arrest. But employment decisions are not necessarily fair. Two people qualify for the same job, and the job goes to the one who lives closer, or whose cousin knows the hiring manager, or who can afford a nicer suit-that is not entirely fair either, but employers have their own reasons for making hiring/firing decisions, and so long as they are not based on race, religion and other protected classes, such decisions are perfectly legal.

In this case, Meriweahter knows (or should know) that he is on a short leash. He was cut in New England despite making Pro Bowls in part because of his play on the field, but in part because of his problems off the field. When Bill Belichik cuts you because of off-the-field issues, you need to reallly take a hard, long look in the mirror.

It is safe to assume that we told Meriweather that we expect him not to engage in behavior which reflect badly on the organization. NFL contracts have behavior clauses in them. By getting arrested, he puts his ability to participate in mandatory team activities and his availability for the regular season (which the team is counting upon) at risk, which potentially messes up our planning. Even if he is not convicted of the crime, his being arrested behind the wheel at 2am, refusing a breathalyzer test and failing a sobriety test (presumably smelling of alcohol) after clubbing reflects badly on an organization which tries to present itself as a positive contributor to our community. If the team decides is does not want to deal with the trouble and uncertainty of having him around and go with a more solid option (like Sean Jones, for example), they are perfectly within their moral right to do so, even if the charges are dropped or Meriweather is eventually found not guilty. That may not be entirely fair to Meriweather (although you could make the arguemtn either way, I think), but that is why players (and people everywhere) should not put their careers at risk by driving drunk. He is lucky that all he has to worry about is his career, as opposed to having killed or maimed himself or some innocent motorist or pedestrian.

That said, I doubt we cut him. We take a $2M cap hit for doing so (whcih we might be able to spread out between this year and next under the new CBA) and I don't know if we can do that and sign all of our draftees. That could change I suppose after May 10th, but I suspect we are stuck with him. If he is convicted and has to serve time, maybe we can invoke his contract language to get out of his contract and get his signing bonus back. Preferably, he changes his life around and starts to behave like a good citizen and reliable teammate.

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Originally Posted by CNYSkinFan View Post
And now we know why I hate reed Doughty as our 4th safety...
Why? Because now he will have to play? How does not having him as a backup option make things better for us? If the team thought Dejon Gomes could start next year, we would not have signed 3 veteran safeties (4 if you count Griffin), each with character or injury issues. I would not be surprised if Gomes doesn't even make the team, especially if we draft a safety.

Last edited by Skins7ny : 04-27-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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  #35  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:46 AM
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Unfortunately, the league doesn't see things your way.
Does the league hand out suspensions for DUI's these days? What sort of wrist-slappage is he looking at?
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  #36  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by natgbz View Post
I've got 3 words for everybody:

And

So

What

He didn't hurt anybody, he didn't rape anybody, he didn't even rob anyone. He got caught using his car when he shouldn't have. You guys here about Ryan Leaf? Moving on...
Ask Leonard Little, Donte Stallworth or any number of parents who have lost a child to a drunk driver (or children who have lost a parent). The fact that, as you say, he didn't kill anyone is more a matter of divine grace than it is anything which excuses or mitigates Meriweather's conduct. To pretend otherwise is to totally overlook the dangers of drinking and driving and the risks to himself and others that it caused.

If he had been playing Russian Roulette and the chamber came up empty, would you still say it was okay because "no one got hurt"?
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  #37  
Old 04-27-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by natgbz View Post
Does the league hand out suspensions for DUI's these days? What sort of wrist-slappage is he looking at?
It probably depend on the individual case. The league will punish for anything it thinks tarnishes "The Shield."
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  #38  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:13 AM
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Ask Leonard Little, Donte Stallworth or any number of parents who have lost a child to a drunk driver (or children who have lost a parent). The fact that, as you say, he didn't kill anyone is more a matter of divine grace than it is anything which excuses or mitigates Meriweather's conduct. To pretend otherwise is to totally overlook the dangers of drinking and driving and the risks to himself and others that it caused.

If he had been playing Russian Roulette and the chamber came up empty, would you still say it was okay because "no one got hurt"?

A person should get in trouble if they injure someone else or cause damage to someone else's property. Otherwise, I see no issue with drinking and driving.

There's no guilty mind (lawyers, help me out, is that mens rae?) if you wind up drinking and driving.

Hence, I disagree with your point on Russian Roulette. You're talking about a gun and ammunition. I can't call that analogous to someone operating a vehicle while intoxicated.
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  #39  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:27 AM
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Pretty sure that the NFL doesn't suspend players for DUI. Just a heavy fine.

Hines Ward and Braylon Edwards were both just charged with DUI and got suspended. Even a coach for the Ravens was fined for DUI charge.

I believe it is for a first offense, though. Unlike Vincent Jackson, who has received 2.
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  #40  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Skins7ny View Post
The standard for a criminal conviction is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is almost like a 99% standard. The standard for an employment conviction (i.e., termination) is completely up to the employer. If the employer believes that the guy is guilty, or that the arrest reflects badly on his organization, he can fire the guy whether the guy gets convicted or not.

Normally, I would agree with your post. Just because a guy is charged with a crime does not mean he is guilty or is going to be found guilty (which is not the same thing). It is not fair to the arrestee if he is punished by his employer based on a mere arrest. But employment decisions are not necessarily fair. Two people qualify for the same job, and the job goes to the one who lives closer, or whose cousin knows the hiring manager, or who can afford a nicer suit-that is not entirely fair either, but employers have their own reasons for making hiring/firing decisions, and so long as they are not based on race, religion and other protected classes, such decisions are perfectly legal.

In this case, Meriweahter knows (or should know) that he is on a short leash. He was cut in New England despite making Pro Bowls in part because of his play on the field, but in part because of his problems off the field. When Bill Belichik cuts you because of off-the-field issues, you need to reallly take a hard, long look in the mirror.

It is safe to assume that we told Meriweather that we expect him not to engage in behavior which reflect badly on the organization. NFL contracts have behavior clauses in them. By getting arrested, he puts his ability to participate in mandatory team activities and his availability for the regular season (which the team is counting upon) at risk, which potentially messes up our planning. Even if he is not convicted of the crime, his being arrested behind the wheel at 2am, refusing a breathalyzer test and failing a sobriety test (presumably smelling of alcohol) after clubbing reflects badly on an organization which tries to present itself as a positive contributor to our community. If the team decides is does not want to deal with the trouble and uncertainty of having him around and go with a more solid option (like Sean Jones, for example), they are perfectly within their moral right to do so, even if the charges are dropped or Meriweather is eventually found not guilty. That may not be entirely fair to Meriweather (although you could make the arguemtn either way, I think), but that is why players (and people everywhere) should not put their careers at risk by driving drunk. He is lucky that all he has to worry about is his career, as opposed to having killed or maimed himself or some innocent motorist or pedestrian.

That said, I doubt we cut him. We take a $2M cap hit for doing so (whcih we might be able to spread out between this year and next under the new CBA) and I don't know if we can do that and sign all of our draftees. That could change I suppose after May 10th, but I suspect we are stuck with him. If he is convicted and has to serve time, maybe we can invoke his contract language to get out of his contract and get his signing bonus back. Preferably, he changes his life around and starts to behave like a good citizen and reliable teammate.
Oh I wasn't speaking to the legality of it. That used to be league policy, to not punish prior to the disposition of the cases. I think it is a solid policy because I think that while life and employers aren't always fair, they should strive for fairness and I think the policy promoted fairness. It removes the appearance of selective enforcement and keeps those in charge of handing out punishments off the slippery slope of trying to distinguish why one incident gets punished while another doesn't.

My reasons for not wanting him cut are actually more practical (and this was before you made me aware of the cap charge for cutting him) than some concept of fairness. We brought him in because we believed he can be a contributor on the field and due to the sad state of our depth at the position. I think we need to let that part of it play out.
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  #41  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:43 AM
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Is it really that hard to call a cab? Sheesh.
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  #42  
Old 04-27-2012, 11:58 AM
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But Shanny only goes after high character guys!!!
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  #43  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by natgbz View Post
A person should get in trouble if they injure someone else or cause damage to someone else's property. Otherwise, I see no issue with drinking and driving.

There's no guilty mind (lawyers, help me out, is that mens rae?) if you wind up drinking and driving.

Hence, I disagree with your point on Russian Roulette. You're talking about a gun and ammunition. I can't call that analogous to someone operating a vehicle while intoxicated.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you're an idiot.
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  #44  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:17 PM
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Why? Because now he will have to play? How does not having him as a backup option make things better for us? If the team thought Dejon Gomes could start next year, we would not have signed 3 veteran safeties (4 if you count Griffin), each with character or injury issues. I would not be surprised if Gomes doesn't even make the team, especially if we draft a safety.
Reed doughty is an excuse this team uses instead of actually going out and grooming young replacements at ss. We lull ourselves into a false sense of security because he knows the playbook and the marketing department loves his back story. We say what is the harm of him beinfg 4th safety...the harm is 4th safety in the NFL play ...alot. And Doughty on the field is a dumbster fire at the back of an abortion clinic.

I would hazard to guess that at this point in doughty's career there are 1015 udfa prospects better then he is right now. I rather get them.
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  #45  
Old 04-27-2012, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by natgbz View Post
I've got 3 words for everybody:

And

So

What

He didn't hurt anybody, he didn't rape anybody, he didn't even rob anyone. He got caught using his car when he shouldn't have. You guys here about Ryan Leaf? Moving on...
I'm guessing you don't know anyone who's been affected by a DUI-related injury or death.

Sometimes the injury seems worse than being killed. My friend's mom is a quadriplegic.

Go on though, I think you were just defending this douchebag.

EDIT: I read the rest of your posts. You are defending the douchebag because you ARE a douchebag. Makes sense.
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