Think about it.

jporterweb · #1 11-07-2003, 04:08 PM

Imagine, you wake up in a dark warm place. You don't know where you are, but at the same time you don't really care. Outside this place, the world is very busy and you can hear it and you react to it. Kicking the wall from time to time. Just for the hell of it, you suck on your thumb for a while. Then all of the sudden while you are there just minding your own business, something starts to happen. All the fluid you've been in keeping you save is sucked away. Then something worse happens. A shiny, cold item is shoved through the walls and grasps ahold of your leg. It hurts how hard it's squeezing, but you are still alive you still feel when your leg is ripped from your body. Then the other. You are slowly ripped apart, by now you are surely dead. When these tools grasp your skull and crush it. The rest of you is pulled out. Congratulations you've just been aborted. Probably because your mom didn't want you. It probably had NOTHING to do with the fact that you were because of rape or incest. No, you were killed because you weren't wanted. You were RIPPED APART because you weren't wanted. Oh well, you were thrown away, wasted. You can never fulfill your potential because you died before your date of birth.

Now, I know you lefties are going to sit here and say things like. The babies not alive, the baby can't feel or something like that. Fact is, that's how most abortions are done. And if there are brain waves detectable inside 4 weeks whats to say that the baby can't feel pain? What do you think, would you have wanted your mother to go back and do this to you if you were still a baby? I thought the left cared about ALL people?

Skinzaholic · #2 11-07-2003, 04:22 PM

JPorter... although I also feel for what you are describing... there must be a better way to convey the attrocity of abortion better than this. I dont really know any Democrats who would say they dont care about the baby... they are simply choosing to care about the mother a bit more.

Truth is... abortion hurts everyone involved. It is un-natural... (I personally have counseled several young girls who feel a hole inside years after the "procedure").

There are no easy answers to this debate... nor will there ever be. I think most of those who are Pro-Choice attribute their stance to the rape situation... and I can understand their thoughts.

But I still cant forget the baby.

jporterweb · #3 11-07-2003, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skinzaholic
JPorter... although I also feel for what you are describing... there must be a better way to convey the attrocity of abortion better than this. I dont really know any Democrats who would say they dont care about the baby... they are simply choosing to care about the mother a bit more.

Truth is... abortion hurts everyone involved. It is un-natural... (I personally have counseled several young girls who feel a hole inside years after the "procedure").

There are no easy answers to this debate... nor will there ever be. I think most of those who are Pro-Choice attribute their stance to the rape situation... and I can understand their thoughts.

But I still cant forget the baby.

The fact is they worry so much about the "RIGHT" of the mother, that they don't care about the child. If they cared about the child, it would be illegal. A mother can always give a child up for adoption. Fact is, thats how it happens, that is what is done. If they cared about the child, they would say your right abortion is wrong because it is a living being. let's just have people give the baby up for adoption instead of killing it. If the baby was born premature and someone crushed purposely, what is that? OH RIGHT!! MURDER!! So why is it any different if it's still in the womb.

IowaSkinsFan · #4 11-10-2003, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jporterweb
The fact is they worry so much about the "RIGHT" of the mother, that they don't care about the child. If they cared about the child, it would be illegal. A mother can always give a child up for adoption. Fact is, thats how it happens, that is what is done. If they cared about the child, they would say your right abortion is wrong because it is a living being. let's just have people give the baby up for adoption instead of killing it. If the baby was born premature and someone crushed purposely, what is that? OH RIGHT!! MURDER!! So why is it any different if it's still in the womb.

Any woman who gets pregnant through voluntary sexual activity has given up the privelege of having rights, IMO. They should be held accountable for their actions and not be allowed to kill a human being just because being a mother doesn't fit into their schedule. When you engage in the act of procreation, you give up certain things, and one of those things is the right to be frivolous.

Now I know I am going to ruffle some feathers here and to let you know, I am less firm on this issue when it comes to incest or rape, but I stand fast on women who regret one night stands and don't want a 24 hour a day reminder of the event.

Sorry to all of those I have offended, but these are just my opinions.

jporterweb · #5 11-10-2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by robert11273
Sorry to all of those I have offended, but these are just my opinions.

Don't appologize, I agree with you. However, there are things now for Rape victims that they can take and it will prevent the baby from forming. As for incest, not much can be done. Abortion is one of the few options. However there has to be a better way to do it then ripping the baby apart.

dukeuch · #6 11-11-2003, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jporterweb
Don't appologize, I agree with you. However, there are things now for Rape victims that they can take and it will prevent the baby from forming. As for incest, not much can be done. Abortion is one of the few options. However there has to be a better way to do it then ripping the baby apart.

Hmmmm. I hope you are not saying that the "morning after" pill will not work for victims of incest, but rather that access to the pill might be a problem.

jporterweb · #7 11-12-2003, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dukeuch
Hmmmm. I hope you are not saying that the "morning after" pill will not work for victims of incest, but rather that access to the pill might be a problem.

Incest is usually consensual in the situation we are speaking of. Otherwise, it's rape.

#8 11-12-2003, 10:31 AM

Even in most rape cases, the woman doesn't want to be tested, and feels like a dirty whore. SO they run home and take a shower then curl up into a ball and weep. (can't say I blame them). It's days / weeks later (sometimes months) before a lot come to their senses, some find out they are pregnant THEN say inform they were raped. What about them?

I totally agree with Robert here (surprise surprise). A one night stand or something of that nature, well there are certain consequences to actions, and they need to own up to them.

jporter...did you ever think that it's just as tough to give up a baby for adoption as it is to abort it for the mother? Adoption is a MUCH harder choice in my opinion. It's a great one for the child, but that mother will forever know that she has a child out there, and that child will forever know that her mother didn't want her. DOn't get me wrong, I'm all for adoption, but you make it sound like it's the easier choice, and it isn't.

I have a concern about fetus that are tested as having downs syndrome. My wife will be getting this test soon, and if the baby has this problem, I will suggest abortion.

dukeuch · #9 11-12-2003, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jsarno
Even in most rape cases, the woman doesn't want to be tested, and feels like a dirty whore. SO they run home and take a shower then curl up into a ball and weep. (can't say I blame them). It's days / weeks later (sometimes months) before a lot come to their senses, some find out they are pregnant THEN say inform they were raped. What about them?

I totally agree with Robert here (surprise surprise). A one night stand or something of that nature, well there are certain consequences to actions, and they need to own up to them.

jporter...did you ever think that it's just as tough to give up a baby for adoption as it is to abort it for the mother? Adoption is a MUCH harder choice in my opinion. It's a great one for the child, but that mother will forever know that she has a child out there, and that child will forever know that her mother didn't want her. DOn't get me wrong, I'm all for adoption, but you make it sound like it's the easier choice, and it isn't.

I have a concern about fetus that are tested as having downs syndrome. My wife will be getting this test soon, and if the baby has this problem, I will suggest abortion.

Sarno:

I do not understand the rational you use for dissallowing SOME abortions. Is it that the fetus is an innocent life? Or that it feels pain? Or that the mother should be punished if she changes here mind?

dukeuch · #10 11-12-2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jporterweb
Incest is usually consensual in the situation we are speaking of. Otherwise, it's rape.

You know, I'd suggest incest is usually rape even if physical force is not used. I can see easily how a young woman or man can be duped into thinking it is "alright" or by feeling threatened psycologically by an adult, and would venture to guess that the child would "know" this was wrong but feel powerless or too confused to do anything about it.

jporterweb · #11 11-12-2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jsarno
Even in most rape cases, the woman doesn't want to be tested, and feels like a dirty whore. SO they run home and take a shower then curl up into a ball and weep. (can't say I blame them). It's days / weeks later (sometimes months) before a lot come to their senses, some find out they are pregnant THEN say inform they were raped. What about them?

I totally agree with Robert here (surprise surprise). A one night stand or something of that nature, well there are certain consequences to actions, and they need to own up to them.

jporter...did you ever think that it's just as tough to give up a baby for adoption as it is to abort it for the mother? Adoption is a MUCH harder choice in my opinion. It's a great one for the child, but that mother will forever know that she has a child out there, and that child will forever know that her mother didn't want her. DOn't get me wrong, I'm all for adoption, but you make it sound like it's the easier choice, and it isn't.

I have a concern about fetus that are tested as having downs syndrome. My wife will be getting this test soon, and if the baby has this problem, I will suggest abortion.

(this is talking about the one night stands and such, not rape and incest) Lets start first with the adoption is harder. I don't give a crap about the mother at this point. She is the one that made the decisions to do the things. I don't care that it will be hard for her to give it up. It's the childs right I am talking about. That child has a right to be born. I'm not saying that it's easier, I am saying that if they don't want the child that SHOULD BE the ONLY choice.

Oh, and let me tell you something about the Down Syndrome test. It's not always right. Alot of times it's wrong. My mom had the test with her last child. And it was positive for Down's. Well let me tell you my little sister is one of the brightest, smartest, 4 year olds you'll ever meet. Be a helluva thing to abort a child because they were diagnosed with something they don't really have.

Skinzaholic · #12 11-12-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jporterweb
Oh, and let me tell you something about the Down Syndrome test. It's not always right. Alot of times it's wrong. My mom had the test with her last child. And it was positive for Down's. Well let me tell you my little sister is one of the brightest, smartest, 4 year olds you'll ever meet. Be a helluva thing to abort a child because they were diagnosed with something they don't really have.

I have to agree with you here JP... I also have seen this happen several times...

JSARNO - I dont understand your rational... You have stated your personal convictions and religion several times in this forum.., and yet you make a decision to abort if any signs of desease are found. What about healing? Can't God do that?

Not trying to judge you... just wondering made you make such a decision regarding that possibility in your future baby.

dukeuch · #13 11-12-2003, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jporterweb
(this is talking about the one night stands and such, not rape and incest) Lets start first with the adoption is harder. I don't give a crap about the mother at this point. She is the one that made the decisions to do the things. I don't care that it will be hard for her to give it up. It's the childs right I am talking about. That child has a right to be born. I'm not saying that it's easier, I am saying that if they don't want the child that SHOULD BE the ONLY choice.

Oh, and let me tell you something about the Down Syndrome test. It's not always right. Alot of times it's wrong. My mom had the test with her last child. And it was positive for Down's. Well let me tell you my little sister is one of the brightest, smartest, 4 year olds you'll ever meet. Be a helluva thing to abort a child because they were diagnosed with something they don't really have.

Face it, pro-lifers have a set of beliefs, both religious and/or interms of their belief in when the fetus is a "person", probably e not shared by pro-choicers. Debate will be endless and nobodies mind will be changed.

That said, I will ask why from your standpoint the child does NOT have the right to be born in cases of rape or incest? What does the mother's frame of mind or circumstance have to do with the fetus' innocence or rights?

jporterweb · #14 11-12-2003, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dukeuch
Face it, pro-lifers have a set of beliefs, both religious and/or interms of their belief in when the fetus is a "person", probably e not shared by pro-choicers. Debate will be endless and nobodies mind will be changed.

That said, I will ask why from your standpoint the child does NOT have the right to be born in cases of rape or incest? What does the mother's frame of mind or circumstance have to do with the fetus' innocence or rights?

I believe that the child does have the right to life in all instances. That's why I've stated in the past that their are other options for individuals. Including the Rape Victims.

dukeuch · #15 11-12-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jporterweb
I believe that the child does have the right to life in all instances. That's why I've stated in the past that their are other options for individuals. Including the Rape Victims.

Fair Enough. Then why the difference about who should be allowed to use the morning after pill? You specifically mention it as an option for rape and incest vicitms, why not for others?