Happy RamaHanuKwanzMas! - Page 2

Spence · #16 12-29-2003, 01:30 PM

If you're at work it is a good idea to go out of your way not to offend people. Some people call that political correctness. Sensible people call it good business. I can't tell you how many times I've dealt with people in government that were complete jerks and I wanted to tell them off good and proper. Didn't do it, though. Unprofessional and bad for business. Never know when you'll need a valuable client or contact. I don't view it as political correctness. It's the price you pay to do business in a diverse society. Don't like it? Consider moving to a country that is less diverse. Saudi Arabia, for example. Of course, saying Merry Christmas [or even Happy New Year] over there can get you tossed in prison for a long time, but at least you won't have to deal with diversity.

jporterweb · #17 12-29-2003, 03:32 PM

Keino, we've been told specifically that we are not to utter the words Christmas even if they are spoken to us. It is because some people that don't celebrate get offended. Which is just plain wrong. Spence I understand about diversity. But the fact is that I should be able to say Merry Christmas. I am not. That is wrong.

Keino · #18 12-29-2003, 04:10 PM

It sounds like the issue isn't political correctness, but an uptight employer who has been sued over something that probably was Offensive.

Not being able to utter the word Christmas is just plain Silly. Can't say "Christmas Shopping" must say "Winter Holiday Shopping"...how moronic. Seems rather extreme to me. Being sensitive to the feelings of others is not extreme, but this certainly is. I

Spence · #19 12-29-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jporterweb
Spence I understand about diversity. But the fact is that I should be able to say Merry Christmas. I am not. That is wrong.

Who has told you not to mention Christmas?

Skinzaholic · #20 12-30-2003, 09:44 AM

Keino - Im sorry that you read my post as a shot at PC... it was actually only meant to be a humurous look at the silliness of trying to please everyone. Wasnt trying to offend anyone at all. But - even you have lines that you are drawing... by saying that it is moronic to be stopped from even saying the word "Christmas" - you are making choices that some wouldnt agree with. Truth is, there ARE people who get offended at the very use of the word in their presence. Just as they have the right to not use it... and you have thre right to use it in generl terms only... others have the right to use it as a direct referrence to an age-old holiday celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately... what Spence calls "good business" is actually just a more accepted form of discrimination.

Skinzaholic · #21 12-30-2003, 09:45 AM

Spence... can you please provide me with an example of someone who is practicing good business by using terms which do not offend people?

jporterweb · #22 12-30-2003, 09:46 AM

Our managers have told us that we can't say it because and I quote. "It is not politically correct." That is my point. I should be able to say Merry Christmas. I understand diversity, I have no problem with other religions and holidays. My problem is that I can't celebrate my holiday the way I like to celebrate. I don't give a flying crap if you are a muslim and don't celebrate Christmas, I still want to wish you a Merry Christmas. But because some people say "We don't celebrate christmas so we are offended when we hear it is ridiculous. I don't get offended when someone tells me Happy Haunukah or Happy Kwanza or whatever. That is what they celebrate and that is their right. But for some reason, I'm not allowed to say Merry Christmas. You think thats right?

jporterweb · #23 12-30-2003, 09:50 AM

Keino · #24 12-30-2003, 11:12 AM

JPorter, I think that is a rather extreme interpretation of Politically correct. It is good business not to offend you patrons, but the reality is that it is Christmas Season. Just about every retailer profits from Christmas, so again, I just don't understand why you wouldn't be allowed to wish someone a Merry Christmas who is obviously doing Christmas Shopping.

Skinz: as I said, initially I read your post as an All inclusive Salutation. No more no less. It wasn't until it was pointed out to me that this Glenn Beck fellow coined the phrase out of discontent with Political Correctness. I could only conclude when presented with these additional unknown facts that your post had everything to do with being against Political Correctness, as you later posted that "I refuse to give in to the fabricated PC machine".

I would however, like to explore a comment that you made. Being a man of the Cloth, I found it both interesting and Puzzling:

Quote:

Christmas doesnt HAVE to be about Christianity. It CAN simply be about love and kindness and unity, etc.

How can this be? Christmas is about the Birth of Jesus Christ. Love kindness and unity through Christ right? Correct me if Im wrong, but these things cannot exist without Christ, right?
One of biggest problems I have with Christmas is that it has become about Buying gifts, trees, decorations and waiting on Santa. Im surprised to hear such a comment from you. It seems to me you would have more of a Problem with CHRIST being systematically removed from Christmas than I would........

Skinzaholic · #25 12-30-2003, 12:04 PM

Keino - my statement wasnot to say that Christmas doesnt have to do with Christianity to ME... but simply to imply that those who are offended due to the religious implications with Christmas are not forced to throw ou the entire holiday to match their beliefs. This is the side of PC that gets me so angered... that those who do not have the same personal beliefes as the majority of the US people seem to take it upon their own to destroy every tradition and sign of America that they can in order to produce a sterile nation.

There are many, many people living in this country who do not label themselves as a "Christian", and yet still celebrate the love and peace of the Christmas season by exchanging gifts under the tree on Dec 25th.

I am assuming everyone here already knows MY personal stance.

I also want to make sure you understand that I am NOT criticizing you for your personal beliefs either. You have mentioned several personal stands that you have that I totally agree with. My comments are totally directed to the politically correct machine... chewing up morals and spitting out garbage.

Hope you are enjoying this debate as much as I am!

Keino · #26 12-30-2003, 12:14 PM

Actually I am enjoying it. I don't think we disagree much on this thread at all to be quite honest.

Minnesota Mike · #27 12-30-2003, 12:51 PM

I understand sensitivity and diversity and all that. And if you are in a shopping mall or a public building being inclusive is nice.

However, I think when you're in a Catholic Church (or any other Christian denomination) on Christmas Eve, at the end of Christmas Eve Mass, and chatting with people who also just sat through the Service with you, you ought not be too worried about saying "Merry Christmas". In this situation last week, I was astounded at how often I heard people saying "Happy Holidays" to each other. It really struck me as odd.

RedskinsDave · #28 12-30-2003, 12:54 PM

That's funny Mike, the same thing happened to me after mass and I told people it's okay, the thought police aren't here, you can say Merry Christmas.

Skinzaholic · #29 12-30-2003, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RedskinsDave
That's funny Mike, the same thing happened to me after mass and I told people it's okay, the thought police aren't here, you can say Merry Christmas.

A whimsical response... but doesnt anyone else see he correlations between this sort of bondge and Communism?

Keino · #30 12-30-2003, 01:38 PM

Communism is an ECONOMIC system. It's Antonym is not Freedom or Democracy which are Political/Philosophical Constructs. The Opposite of Communism is CAPITALISM.

As for calling it bondage, I submit that people are free to say Merry Christmas if they want to. That they've chosen to say Happy Holidays at Church/Mass is probably just a carry over from their professional lives. Political Correctness to me = being sensitive to the feelings of those who are different from you. I see nothing wrong with that. What you guys are describing is Facism to me.

As for Political Correctness, IF an owner of a store wold rather not serve Black Patrons, but does so out of fear of being picketted, boycotted etc, then it is a good thing. It would be better if he would rather serve anyone regardless of race, creed, gender etc., but in this hypothetical, PC has done way more good than harm. PC makes people think twice about offensive and repugnant beahvior, again a good thing.

As for Jporters very real example, I submit that he should say "Merry Christmas" anyway. If he is met with reprisal action it would seem to me he would have a law suit on his hands. My employer pays me to work for them, but they do not have license to tell me what is and isnt appropriate as far as salutations go, so long as my salutations have no negatiove impact on Business. Im sure I attended the Office CHRISTMAS Party not the Office Winter Holliday party.